Some reflections.

[Sam Peppiatt]

A working wheel---I don't think any one will care. The derision will only increase------Sam

[Roxaway59]

I’m just going to state this then leave anyone who wants to disagree to their own devices.

Yes I have seen this kind of debate happen many times before too and it ends up turning into “who’s on first base”. That’s because two things get confused so let me make it plain to anyone who wants to listen.

There is nothing wrong with the scientific method and when its done properly by honest people with no agenda and high morality it serves mankind well. Individual scientists who don’t really care about truth and have their own agenda are another matter entirely.

The notion that bankers with worthless paper money and one’s and zero’s on a computer screen that is now classed as fiat money which is no longer based on anything real would plough their fraudulent gains into a wheel that would make the whole idea of money redundant therefore taking away all the power that the same bankers had in the first place is quite funny.

Money just represents energy because it takes energy to make anything. Real energy though cannot make energy but money can make more money. Basically money is a mechanism to enable greedy people to legally steal energy from poor people.

A lot of people don’t know or even care about this simple fact but some people not only know about it but exploit it to ruinous levels. Anyone who thinks these people would happily give up the power they have in support of a machine that would level the playing field is just fooling themselves.

The problem is that you can't expect a good person to understand the mind of a cold psychopath and psychopaths make great business people since they don’t care about what they do to others.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating and there is I believe a special principal to be found that can make a gravity wheel work and I will continue to look for it. Anyone who doesn’t believe because their mind is already made up no longer needs to keep looking although they may feel it is their duty to dissuade others from bothering to try.

These discussions are not really about the wheel so I will be sticking to that from now on
Graham

[johannesbender]

My visitors included supporters from the highest ranks, but with them too came base parasites. Some pretended that my secrets
were already common knowledge, probably hoping that in this way I would be tricked into delivering my artistry into their greedy hands.
But I would often answer them back as if I was a mumbling shepherd. They got no word of truth from me. I got to be very good
at hiding the truth. Sometimes I fooled them with mumbo-jumbo such as made-up Latin words, and would then clam up tight again.
People would whisper that I had worn myself out with excessive study.

Maby the AP poem was also just mumbo-jumbo and meaningless rhetoric .

I wonder just how much if any of the TP was made meaningless on purpose.

[Fletcher]

My visitors included supporters from the highest ranks, but with them too came base parasites. Some pretended that my secrets were already common knowledge, probably hoping that in this way I would be tricked into delivering my artistry into their greedy hands.

But I would often answer them back as if I was a mumbling shepherd. They got no word of truth from me. I got to be very good at hiding the truth.

Sometimes I fooled them with mumbo-jumbo such as made-up Latin words, and would then clam up tight again.

People would whisper that I had worn myself out with excessive study.

Maybe the AP poem was also just mumbo-jumbo and meaningless rhetoric .

Highly likely intentionally conceived to confuse more than educate jb .. it was a public document, that also slammed his critics, that could be read by all and sundry (his critics, and the great unwashed) .. his frame of mind and intent has to have a question mark beside it ..

I assume the following is both literal and figurative in the context of the AP Poem, and maybe therefore more reliable - "A great fat herd of fat, lazy, plump horses wanders aimlessly." - horses do now, and did do, work - great fat / fat lazy plump horses are stronger than light skinny / hungry ones and able to do more work - herd indicates quite a few (more than a family) wandering around .. short of it - the many weights are the horses that do the Work ..

I wonder just how much if any of the TP was made meaningless on purpose.

Probably less so than in AP imo - because it was in his private hands ..

Everything he said or drew was designed with his meaning and his truth in mind - and we struggle to distill and make sense of his mind and intent .. just as he engineered the struggle, and our challenge, to be imo ..

[preoccupied]

I have seen this conversation happen many times here.

Science is based on observation and measurement. Bessler never showed his wheel, and science has not ever measured an OU, which by the way is what is required for a purely mechanical wheel that doesn't "steal" energy from an external source.

If you supply a scientist with a working BW, there will be plenty of funding to investigate it.

The external energy source is gravity and because gravity is pulling downwards across multiple points along a horizontal plane you can spread the force along a large gear on a chassis for extra lever length which should easily produce a variety of mechanisms that can use the gravity for work. The unobvious thing about it is that the large gear is cumbersome and covers up available space in the drawing or physical build such that you need a separate gear outside of where you have the large gear on the chassis so that you can connect multiple large gears on chassy. This is basically logically sound and I think you other guys are ignoring it because you don't want me to be acknowledged for having a good idea, for whatever reason.

hey Graham,

I think that a gravity wheel would be dangerous to the planet but it's fun to think that gravity energy would produce increase in labor power in the economy by eliminating other fuel sources. I don't think the biggest savior for the planet will be cheaper energy from gravity despite that I outlined that it's literally that simple the machine I mentioned. And your complaints about fiat currency are unfounded. A gold standard would be unmanageable. Governments have to inflate their currency with their central banks when their currency is more widely used or else there wouldn't be able to be rich people using the money because the economy at home from which the currency comes from would become too expensive to have exports and then also people would hoard the currency, the divide between rich and poor would depend on only serving the interest of the richest and the poor would have continuously shrinking net worth and unavailable jobs. The only reason the gold standard worked back in the day is because people could live off of the land. Modern economies for capitalism do manipulate currencies because it creates jobs and rich people and if it only created rich people then the currency would lose its trade war on the FOREX market because as people hoard the expensive currency the currency becomes less active and will lose value because its country would have no exports. A commodity only follows the market of the actual currency and only has value based on speculation and its use which sometimes put you ahead if you invest in it in the market but it will not exist without the market itself because no gold standard would work with the example I gave here. If the entire world worshiped gold the service to the gold owners would be in demand but by its very nature they want to hoard so nothing will get done or it will be like pulling teeth to get them to agree to things to do, I speculate. What would likely happen is that gold would again become a commodity despite a gold standard because people would get fed up with serving the gold standard and would actually want to work for a living and be ruled by their interests as a public. Anyways I haven't thought about the money system much and I am probably not a good source of information about it. I just think that the economic system for fiat is not corrupt and it's working because it's based on peoples labor and not on hoarding. I imagine if the top 10% held the commanding supply of the gold they would hoard it and nothing would get done and likewise people would hoard the non inflating currency and there would be less consumption and that would create less of everything. Luckily for society there was an increasing supply of gold and a smaller world population or this would have happened earlier when people did use it, the gold standard. If the gold standard didn't cause inflation by there being a gradual increasing supply of gold rushes there probably wouldn't be a good industrial revolution. We can maintain economy progress with fiat currency in hindsight that it can inflate a little and deflate with currency manipulation. I think what's important is not the currency but the rights of business owners such that they can obey rules like not killing the planet by using a gravity wheel and own products and services rather than communism.

I might have mild brain fog right now. I hope you don't mind me trying to be useful.

[gravitationallychallenged]

Maybe the AP poem was also just mumbo-jumbo and meaningless rhetoric .

I wonder just how much if any of the TP was made meaningless on purpose.

I've pondered the possibility that Bessler intentionally deceived people. Since he claimed to be a Christian I don't think he would have, with a clear conscience. I don't blame him for using ambiguity as much as possible to prevent his hard work from being stolen. Many of his answers to questions were plainly stated. His answers can be interpreted in a multitude of ways but that doesn't mean they weren't true. He compels us to perform mental gymnastics and helps us to understand the physics involved in rotating masses. I find that fascinating and provides insights into how those forces work. Even if I never build a working prototype I don't count my time spent as a waste but as an education.

Tesla tested his inventions in his mind, until he was confident enough to invest time and materials into a physical build. I've tried to emulate him and have spent a lot of time testing configurations in my mind, and have come up with several mechanisms that align with the clues Bessler left us with. Many of them I've had to abandon as unworkable. Bessler spent 10 long years building, failing and persevering until he solved the problem. Should he have handed the solution to us on a silver platter? I think we should be thankful that he left us some tidbits of information that can be used to reverse engineer it. As frustrating as it is, we have much more information to work with than Bessler did when he began his quest.

Even though he didn't achieve financial success, Bessler was a mechanical genius who was able to hitch a ride on gravity, something very few in history have been able to do. His invention is just as important as the gravity powered hydro-electric generator, which is still benefitting humanity to this day, but even more versatile because it can be located anywhere on the planet. I don't think we should denigrate a man who was able to demonstrate the possibility of tapping into an unlimited source of free power. I give him the benefit of the doubt because he paid his dues and was dilligent to disprove any possibility of fraud.

[Sam Peppiatt]

Gc', I agree with you, you are right, with out him and John Collins, I would never have tried it. I believed the scientists. Just knowing that it could be done, makes all the difference in the world ---Sam
ETA, Scientists are almost forced to lie about it to protect there own ass. What kind of a job would they get, if they admitted that gravity wheels are possible but, don't have a clue as to how to make one.

[Fletcher]

Very well said indeed gc !

And to Sam about John Collins contributions to our motivation and knowledge towards solving this quest for a 24/7 renewable-energy source ..

[preoccupied]

Engineers are very prejudice against perpetual motion machines.

Allow me to render your pursuit utterly pointless by proposing a much more specific title up for grab than 24/7 renewable energy sources. There is obviously ways to take structural energy and make mechanical energy leverage and a way to make structural energy into inertia. I have my ideas for it. These shock waves and static fields could propel space ships and gravity or like sci fi tractor beams but that creates a problem in itself such that the convenience of propulsion could separate the universe apart from the movement of life across the Universe. Also, chain reactions of structural to leverage assist in making devices that could potentially destroy a planet with a projectile. I don't know what I was aware of before when I was younger because of being hit on the head hard enough to forget it but these sort of things and I think genetic engineering were easy for me when I was kindergarten age. I want in on this perpetual motion culture appreciation man in that I very much like the attitude here on the forum right now. What can I say? I guess you guys said cool things. I think a mechanical trick that would create a perpetual motion machine would be accidentally partially harnessing structural energy to inertia or leverage.

[Sam Peppiatt]

preoccupied,
How about a new name for a new concept? A 'Mechanical Engine', comprised of all machine parts. With great amounts of energy supplied to it by falling Iron. All of it's components are made of iron, iron weights, iron bearings, iron levers, iron springs. A here to for, unknow species of machinery. An un-perpetual machine, that can be turned off an on at any time, like any other engine. Free of the stigma of gravity!!

Yea, I know I'm losing it,(I've been hit on the head a few times too)------------------Sam