PROCESS RESTART

[SHADOW]

Rien de mieux pour aujourd'hui.

Nothing better for today.

[preoccupied]

Bonjour, I think that this is how pneumatic press works. If you have a 4:1 pneumatic ratio where the tube is thinner that is driving the mechanism then you have a smaller amount of water displaced but the weight can push up the water 4x as high. So this wheel would work. Basically you drew your water wheel backwards SHADOW. You must use big tubes up all of the way up and small tubes driving the water down by a weight, and also the water displaces without being dragged down on the descending side at the right if the wheel is turning Clockwise. What you drew was water being pulled in on the ascending side and out on the descending side by a weight. The way water works it would work here with the water all of the way up and spread out. The weights on the descending side on the right actually play very little role in moving the water, the water moves itself. Anyways you might have had this in mind too but you put the tubes in the wrong proportion (I think). You need to fill large tubes and drive the weight with the smaller tube. I know that a lot of people have looked at pneumatic power for a gravity wheel but why didn't anybody think of what I just drew here? Is there a mental block that only I can invent workable perpetual motion machines? Because I'm pretty sure my swastika wheel with pulleys also works and this one should work too. I am an inventor of perpetual motion machines. I admit this is not any different than your idea I just put the tubes in the correct proportions. But for whatever reason you don't see the pneumatics working like this. I think this is how pneumatics works. Like look at the top there, there is 1/4th of the distance thick tube and the water falls through the tube on the left by the weight, I guess the tube could be even smaller but I don't think it's necessary. If the water displaces on the horizontal position on the left it will be 4x distance above it that it would move that it can displace the water with the weight on a pneumatic press. You trade the vertical fall with filling the remaining tube on top and you fall a greater distance with the weight than the water is lifted up but it fills the space which transcends down the wheel along the right. Mild brain fog right now. I hope I made sense.

Sincerely, Jon Perry

[preoccupied]

This would also work. Water would drain on the falling side CW or CCW, whichever side is fuller. It could be a two way wheel potentially.

[daxwc]

That is interesting preoccupied. There is lots of physics lessons on buoyancy, displacement and hydrostatics a good grasp helps before you start. I have always liked that you can balance a pan of water on a very small object/fulcrum and move the boat without it tipping over.

[daxwc]

So on your design would you have the slots behind the weight (the white section) open to atmosphere or would it be on vacuum?

Also why you posting on Shadow's thread?? How do you ever keep track of where you been or what you did spawning all over on totally different concepts? Maybe it is just me.

[preoccupied]

So on your design would you have the slots behind the weight (the white section) open to atmosphere or would it be on vacuum?

Also why you posting on Shadow's thread?? How do you ever keep track of where you been or what you did spawning all over on totally different concepts? Maybe it is just me.

Shadow started it
https://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/view ... 96#p206096

I think that if you have a vacuum in the tube that it won't move at all because the vacuum would hold it. In my most recent water wheel post with the tubs straight towards the center displacing at the bottom if you turn it some it will be heavier with water on one side and the weight on the heavy side will move towards the 45 degree angle and fall pushing water into the horizontal opposite side. It's just timing and it would remain unbalance as it does this. That is what I mean by a two way wheel. You could just hold the wheel and wait for the water to fully displace and push it in the other direction if you wanted to. I think that I'm right and that pneumatics requires a smaller tube to drive the water around in by a weight and thicker tubes for the water and that even though there is more weight total in the water of thicker tubes it depends on the tube size and the water level upwards for the water characteristics in tubes. So a small tube would displace less water upwards in the larger tube. In this case it would displace water back into a small tube but he weight is horizontal when being displaced into and falling nearly vertical when displacing water. Well maybe that's the trick but if you were to use pneumatic characteristics the water would have to be thicker in the driven tube. The driving tube is thinner.

[SHADOW]

Un peu de distraction!!

A little distraction!

[preoccupied]

What comes to mind is following Bessler's clues. How can I made your distraction apply force at right angles? If you had the lever connected to the axle in the center of the ellipse fixed at 90 degrees then you could have the red lever be a lever on a joint and the green lever be a weak spring there not on the axle. If the wheel turns CW when the weight rolls out it will apply force with a square shape. And when it rolls on the left side of the wheel ascending it will not bend all of the levers but instead compress the spring and become like a triangle. If the green lever attached to the axle in the center of the ellipse is also slightly weighted it will continuously push the weight slightly to the right with the help of the spring. I might take a lengthy hiatus because I might.

[SHADOW]

Preocupied,
je trouve le symbole de le svastika abjecte donc a rayer de mon répertoire!!
J'ai déjà dit que je n'utiliserais pas de ressorts dans mes options de recherche.
Préoccupez vous de nous fournir une roue fonctionnelle avec vos sujétions.
J.B

Preocupied,
I find the symbol of the spiteful swastika so to scratch from my repertoire!!
I have already said that I will not use springs in my search options.
Be careful to provide us with a functional wheel with your constraints.
J.B

[SHADOW]

Test

[preoccupied]

Shadow: I provided no swastika description just then. Not all right angles are swastikas. Bessler's first wheel was a swastika with pulley's though because I bought his early diary for 5 billion dollars when I was a kid and that is what I think that I remember from it, along with poetry or just interesting stuff he wrote. Bessler obviously made a variety of additional perpetual motion machines later. If you don't like swastika's with pulleys then focus on those other wheels. It could be the water wheel, it seems to follow the 4:1 clue. It could use springs in some designs and he did say he used springs in statements. But not all of his clues were referring to the ONE. He made many.

[SHADOW]

Ma vision du MT137

My vision of the MT137

[Robinhood46]

That is pretty much what i see too.
This would allow us to understand why there was only one hole that gave access to every aspect of the mechanism.
It would also make JC's thoughts of the 5 mechanisms valid.
It could also explain the support having a crack that opens once every rotation. It would imply that it isn't exactly once every rotation, because the heavy spot would be shifting radially one step with each revolution.
It would also be possible to have the same pattern of movement with the Buzzsaw, which is or isn't related to Bessler's work, depending on the source of information.
It would also have the difference i believe to be fundamental.

At present i am working on something very similar to this. Anyone who followed my thoughts on the Buzzsaw will understand what i am referring to.
My recent build, the trebuchet, hopefully will get the white weight in your image to shift from it's initial position to it's destination. The offset mass of all the weights will be shifting around the wheel in a counter direction to rotation. The last weight drops back every rotation and becomes the first weight.
I never managed to get this to work when trying to do the Buzzsaw, but i didn't have the trebuchet to shift the weight. If all goes well, the wheel will always have 5 weights on the down side and only 4 on the upside, because the trebuchet will be lifting the 5th.
I'm hoping that this will eliminate the need to force the reset, which is the bit we all struggle with.

[SHADOW]

Bonjour Robin des bois,
La théorie présentée nécessite d'utiliser des portillons à sens uniques!!
Effectivement cela m'a fait penser à la BuzeShaw Mais pour cette dernière nous n'avons pas toutes les données, qui avait il? sur le bâti pour aider à la distribution des poids, combien de poids y avait il effectivement sur le système? les morceaux trouvés ne sont ils pas des leurres pour que l'ennemi ne persiste pas à chercher l'original!!!
Pour ma part, je travail sur un trébuchet de type "Tape cul" bascule pour enfants, avec les jouets de types Forgerons mais ca peine à venir!!!
Pour le principe de surversement de liquide j'ai trouvé la forme de la boite mais c'est compliqué à réaliser!

Hello Robin Hood,
The theory presented requires using one-way gates!!
Indeed it made me think of the BuzeShaw But for the latter we do not have all the data, who had it? on the rack to help with weight distribution, how much weight was actually on the system? the pieces found are not lures so that the enemy does not persist in seeking the original!!
For my part, I work on a trebuchet type "Tape ass" rocker for children, with the toys of Blacksmiths types but it’s hard to come!!
For the principle of liquid overflow I found the shape of the box but it is complicated to achieve!

[Robinhood46]

I think the biggest question with the Buzzsaw is, did it actually work?
I certainly wouldn't give it as much credit as i do Bessler's wheel.
At least with Bessler we have some historical records. We only have hearsay and speculation for the Buzzsaw. We do have the wheel and the weights and we still can't work it out. Would we have the same problem if we actually had Bessler's wheel in parts? The wheel, the weights, some rods and springs. I think we probably would be looking at it all saying "how the fuck did all that go around on it's own?".

What is interesting is the overlap between the two. Since i have come to the conclusion that the difference i call fundamental, is important, everything appears to apply to both wheels.
It is as though the Buzzsaw is a very heavy version of Bessler's wheel. I see it as i have worked out what the weights need to do, but i can't get it to happen. This is obviously because i don't know how to make it happen. Either that, or i am wrong and i can't get it to happen because it can't happen, it's impossible. I'm not suggesting that i conclude PM to be impossible, just achieving it via this method.

I have other things to focus on at present, but i will get around to working on it soon, at least i hope to.