Besslers prime mover and its enabler.

[Roxaway59]

One thing that has been happening in Algodoo for reasons I cannot explain is that when the yellow weight (on the left) has the ability to lever the blue weight and it ends up above the axle line and the green weight representing blue and yellow (in line) is sat on the axle line on the right the the pendulum should exist around 12 o'clock. However with some simulations I have done its acting like its at 6 o'clock. I think WM2D will clear this up.

Graham

[Tarsier79]

WM2D has its problems too. but as long as you can figure out what they are...

That pesky old reset...

[Roxaway59]

Ok I realise why this is happening so I have to amend the statement I made on the other post.

The pendulum exists at around 12 o'clock as long as the yellow weight has reached a certain critical height from the axle line in relation to the blue weight which it has the ability to lever up.

Hope that makes sense.

Graham

[Roxaway59]

Yes that pesky old reset.

Besslers words keep coming into mind.

Seeming is not the same as being.

Graham

[Roxaway59]

I have been working on this for most of the day and the way it looks is as follows.

It appears that the weights can be reset but only if the pendulum at 12 o'clock does not exist.

If the yellow weight is raised enough on the left of the wheel so that the pendulum would exist then it appears doubtful that the weights can be reset properly on the right hand side.

This is disappointing but I will keep simulating to make sure of this and working to see if there is a way round it.

This problem is a familiar one with the original way I was trying to lever the weights but I am a bit surprised that this new way of lifting the yellow weights is not paying off at the moment and I suppose the question is why? It really does not seem to behave like a typical lever. I'm guessing that its more efficient and wastes less energy but maybe that's all. I will try to get more answers.

Graham

[Roxaway59]

Going back to my original wheel idea and trying to find a loophole in the law of the lever has reminded me once again of a few things.

First is that in order for Besslers self starting wheels to work he must have found some kind of loophole so we need to keep on looking to discover what it is.

Second is that the ideas that we employ to create the loophole need not be entirely incorrect and I constantly have to remind myself that if ever we are touching upon his principal we have to work the problem properly or we end up throwing the baby out with the bath water. I suspect that this must have happened hundreds of times in the past.

Third is that if Besslers principal is truly simple then we can not afford to take simple ideas off the table but that is not the same as saying carry on endlessly working on an idea that is doomed to fail. It means that ideas have to be truly modified so that they are not quite the same as before. This last point is definitely a bit tricky.

Fourth is that I don’t think that its just Besslers wheel that needs to reset every time it goes around. I feel the need to reset once in a while too. I sometimes feel the we here are pushing the boundaries of what human beings are suppose to do. Scientists are some of the most tenacious people on the planet but even they for the most part don’t take this challenge on the way that we do even though they have no answers as to what Bessler did.

Lots of people have sayings on the bottom of their post I think mine should be -

Use combined simple ideas to make something remarkable that gravity can not push down.

Graham

[Roxaway59]

This is a follow up to the recent posts about a work around for the law of the lever.

Taking a closer look at this comparison I made earlier.

This time I have made the blue weight on B 63g heavier than the one on A.

I have done this so that they can reach their destination at the same time.

So now they begin in exactly the same position, end in the same position and do it in the same time.

Because of the collisions that B makes it could be stated that the main difference between them is efficiency. That A is more efficient than B and that's it there’s nothing else to see.

[Roxaway59]

So now lets look at A and C.

These two are even more similar with only one difference. C does not have the fixed black central beam.

I have added to both of them extra green beams just so that C does not loose its yellow weight.

Now first of all bear in mind that with good bearings C is not much less efficient than A so efficiency cant be used as an excuse for a detrimental outcome.

When you run the simulation the outcomes are very different with A immediately levering its yellow weight upwards and C having its yellow weight drop like a stone.

That is not the full story though because if you watch C you will notice that its yellow weight actually swings up slightly higher than the yellow weight on A. This is misleading though because you will notice that when the blue weights are level the yellow weight on C is further down than the one on A.

I tested where the weights on A and C ended up with the yellow weight at its highest on a wheel with the opposing equivalent green weight sat on the central axle line and there is no doubt that A worked better. Why C worked at all may be down to the fact that part of the action of C also plays with inertia.

I’m not a mechanical engineer or a scientist as most of you know but there is one thought that has occurred to me and its this.

What if the way to manipulate gravity is to use something that is related to it. Because of the equivalence principal there is a relationship between gravity and inertia.

Graham

[Roxaway59]

I keep reworking this new principal and the latest one that I have done in Algodoo is indicating that it is possible to have the yellow weight far enough up on the left hand side so that the 12 o'clock pendulum exists and reset the weights on the right hand side.

The only way to get a better idea if this is true is to rebuild it in WM2D and see if I get the same positive result.

Graham

[Roxaway59]

This is an update on the work I have been doing.

I began testing this new lever idea in WM2D with negative results so I went back to Algodoo to check things out again and found that there was anomaly's in the simulation. I rebuilt the levers again larger because I know from the past that this can solve certain problems and the latest simulations I have done in Algodoo indicate that it is indeed going to be a problem resetting the weights on the right hand side of the wheel. I was disappointed of course but its not that much of a blow after coming across this problem time and again.

I then decided to go back to comparing the levers and I found something rather odd that is either going to turn out to be something significant or its going to turn out to be just yet another flaw in Algodoo. Either way I will show you what I found and I will check it out in WM2D tomorrow if I have time.

This is the comparison that I made and its a little different than the last one.

[Roxaway59]

The levers are now identical in every way except A has the black beam in the centre and B does not.

So B behaves more like a standard lever but A gets that very small kick due to the black fixed beam being there.

They both have a spring that absorbs some of their energy and both springs are identical.

They both have catches but as you can see I have had to lower the catch on B by quite some way.

There is obviously quite an energy difference between these two and the question is why?

I welcome any comments but obviously I need to do the same experiment in WM2D.

Graham

[SHADOW]

Bonjour Graham,
Pour moi:
Dans le cas B le levier supporte toute la charge de la masse Jaune dès le départ.
Dans le cas A le levier supporte une partie de la masse Jaune au départ et la poutre noire l'autre partie,
Ce qui donne au cas A la possibilté d'un élan que le cas B n'a pas!

Good morning, Graham,
For me:
In case B the lever supports all the load of the Yellow mass from the start.
In case A the lever supports part of the mass Yellow at the start and the black beam the other part,
Which gives case A the possibility of an impetus that case B does not have!

[Roxaway59]

Yes I agree Shadow and A ends up with stronger inertia right from the start.

The energy from both A and B ends up compressing their springs and A ends up with more energy than B.

In that Algodoo simulation the only place I can imagine that energy coming from is gravity.

The only thing to do is check it out in WM2D to see if it agrees.

Graham

[Roxaway59]

Ok I am really pleased and hopeful at the moment because WM2D agrees with Algodoo.

The only thing left for me to do is to recreate this in a real experiment.

There isn't really much else I can say.

Graham