I wasn't asking it the energy used to move the bumble bee from point A to B, I was asking about how much energy it takes to fly with its wings. The point is science thought for a long time it is impossible for a bee to fly, just as it thought heavier than air flight was not possible.
It basically crashed when I asked it to theorize the way Bessler faked the long test. It could not because it is not possible with PE and an internal structure. The power had to have been external according to the calculations it gave me based on his 12 foot wheels.
Quite so.
And what is the source of that external energy? Terra (earth) reaction, of which there are plenty of examples.
In the case of the long test bessler probably couldn't get enough Terra reaction from his tripod axle support on highly polished floors so he nailed a support to the floor and the ceiling.
Now I'll get back to considering the rest of the thread.
AVE MARIA, gratia plena, Dominus tecum. Ô Marie, conçue sans péché, priez pour nous qui avons recours à vous.
Maybe you should teach it about the Blackbird (Down Wind Faster Than The Wind vehicle) heading directly into Wind at ground speed 1.8 times Wind Speed. That was always the proof that lift force (thrust) was far greater than drag forces and could be turned into mechanical energy lol.
A good example of earth reaction energy.
An easier one to understand is the Ventomobile which heads directly into the wind.
Part of the wind energy is directed to the wheels which drive it into the wind.
This, of course, increases the relative wind speed which provides even more energy
to the wheels until and equilibrium is reached between wind speed and ground speed.
Last edited by Senax on Wed Jan 01, 2025 5:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
AVE MARIA, gratia plena, Dominus tecum. Ô Marie, conçue sans péché, priez pour nous qui avons recours à vous.
Hi Senax,
As I see, you try that the car is rolling in one direction.
I think I can help you to complete this mission.
It is an easy task for me now.
I will take some stuff,parts from our "Baumarkt" and will show you the result.
You describe it as "Terragravitic Induction" , I will describe it as an unbalanced oscillation system.
Nevertheless how we name it,
a rolling in one direction
is a step in the right direction of the development of the Bessler wheel.
Georg Künstler wrote: ↑Mon Jan 06, 2025 2:05 pm
Hi Senax,
As I see, you try that the car is rolling in one direction.
I think I can help you to complete this mission.
It is an easy task for me now.
I will take some stuff,parts from our "Baumarkt" and will show you the result.
You describe it as "Terragravitic Induction" , I will describe it as an unbalanced oscillation system.
Nevertheless how we name it,
a rolling in one direction
is a step in the right direction of the development of the Bessler wheel.
Interesting.
Good luck Georg
..............................................
What I'm getting from the offset gyro demonstration is,
First:
The weight of the gyro is being transferred to the trolley support dimple by the moment arising from the difference in speed between the top and bottom of the gyrodisc as it orbits the carriage.
Second:
The force driving the trolley is the moment arising from the horizontal components of the vertical speeds on either sides of the gyrodisc.
Third:
The resistance of the trolley to this driving force varies with the angle of the three
wheels. When the force is in line with the wheels the resistance of the wheels is a minimum and the speed is a maximum. When at right angles the resistance is a maximum and the speed zero.
Last edited by Senax on Mon Jan 06, 2025 9:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
AVE MARIA, gratia plena, Dominus tecum. Ô Marie, conçue sans péché, priez pour nous qui avons recours à vous.
Hi Frank .. I am seeing something different from you apparently ..
Initially when the gyro is released at its most vertical position it scribes a small circle around the dimple pivot - the cart moves backwards and forwards a relatively small linear distance ( in the direction the wheels allow ) ..
When the rotating gyro is near horizontal position the cart also moves backwards and forwards a much greater distance ..
Obviously energy was put into the gyro to spin it up - it loses GPE as it descends to horizontal orientation while rotating around the pivot ( altho the gyro attempts to hold is spinning orientation as gyros do ) - and there are ordinary friction losses - the gyro produces precessional forces which are well known ..
So I watch the backwards and forwards rocking of the cart and where the gyro is in at its travels at the moment it begins to rock, and then later reverses direction - this appears to happen when the gyro enters the semi-circle at the rear or on front of the pivot position, and moves the cart in the opposite direction ..
So after a cursory look it would say it is the gyros inertia ( not wanting to change its position in space ) that pushes the cart in either direction as the gyro passes into that half of rotation ..
If the wheels had one-way bearings the cart would move in only one direction which might be an interesting experiment for you and your grandson to do, as you watch it wind down .. much like the experiment with a pendulum on a slope on a cart that swings forward and backwards and the cart moves forward and backward IINM ..
Fletcher wrote: ↑Mon Jan 06, 2025 9:58 pm
Hi Frank .. I am seeing something different from you apparently ..
Initially when the gyro is released at its most vertical position it scribes a small circle around the dimple pivot - the cart moves backwards and forwards a relatively small linear distance ( in the direction the wheels allow ) ..
When the rotating gyro is near horizontal position the cart also moves backwards and forwards a much greater distance ..
Obviously energy was put into the gyro to spin it up - it loses GPE as it descends to horizontal orientation while rotating around the pivot ( altho the gyro attempts to hold is spinning orientation as gyros do ) - and there are ordinary friction losses - the gyro produces precessional forces which are well known ..
So I watch the backwards and forwards rocking of the cart and where the gyro is in at its travels at the moment it begins to rock, and then later reverses direction - this appears to happen when the gyro enters the semi-circle at the rear or on front of the pivot position, and moves the cart in the opposite direction ..
So after a cursory look it would say it is the gyros inertia ( not wanting to change its position in space ) that pushes the cart in either direction as the gyro passes into that half of rotation ..
If the wheels had one-way bearings the cart would move in only one direction which might be an interesting experiment for you and your grandson to do, as you watch it wind down .. much like the experiment with a pendulum on a slope on a cart that swings forward and backwards and the cart moves forward and backward IINM ..
We are indeed looking at it in different ways.
AVE MARIA, gratia plena, Dominus tecum. Ô Marie, conçue sans péché, priez pour nous qui avons recours à vous.
Third:
The resistance of the trolley to this driving force varies with the angle of the three wheels. When the force is in line with the wheels the resistance of the wheels is a minimum and the speed is a maximum. When at right angles the resistance is a maximum and the speed zero.
Senax wrote: ↑Mon Jan 06, 2025 9:21 pm
What I'm getting from the offset gyro demonstration is,
First:
The weight of the gyro is being transferred to the trolley support dimple by the moment arising from the difference in speed between the top and bottom of the gyrodisc as it orbits the carriage.
Second:
The force driving the trolley is the moment arising from the horizontal components of the vertical speeds on either sides of the gyrodisc.
Third:
The resistance of the trolley to this driving force varies with the angle of the three
wheels. When the force is in line with the wheels the resistance of the wheels is a minimum and the speed is a maximum. When at right angles the resistance is a maximum and the speed zero.
.......................................
************************
Now the resistance of the wheels to sideward displacement being a maximum means that the earth action is also a maximum. The driving force reaction causes the gyro orbit to rise. In other words it gives gravitational potential energy to the gyro.
This is the same earth reaction experienced by the Ventomobile and the Faster than the Wind Trolley - AND THE BESSLER WHEEL. In Bessler's case he probably started off with his usual tripod axle stands and found they were sliding around on the polished floors. He resorted to columns from floor to ceiling to generate the necessary earth reaction.
Curiously enough this earth reaction energy never seems to be recognised as such. It is the same source of energy as that of the interplanetary rockets, albeit on a vastly smaller scale.
AVE MARIA, gratia plena, Dominus tecum. Ô Marie, conçue sans péché, priez pour nous qui avons recours à vous.
Curiously enough this earth reaction energy never seems to be recognised as such. It is the same source of energy as that of the interplanetary rockets, albeit on a vastly smaller scale.
Senax wrote: ↑Sat Jan 11, 2025 8:15 am
Guess what Bessler was up to on top of that mill before he fell to his death.
Idk, another question is why would he need a windmill when he could have used his wheels?
I think he was using his wheel(s).
He probably discovered Earth Reaction when the supports for his wheel skidded about on the Castle's ballroom floor - which was why he had to make supports nailed to the floor and ceiling.
He might have wondered how to use this Earth Reaction and came up with the idea of doing away with sails (which only work when the wind blows) and using his wheel(s) instead.
The castle demonstration had shown that his wheels would work continuously and didn't need feeding. :-)
Last edited by Senax on Mon Jan 13, 2025 9:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
AVE MARIA, gratia plena, Dominus tecum. Ô Marie, conçue sans péché, priez pour nous qui avons recours à vous.
Curiously enough this earth reaction energy never seems to be recognised as such. It is the same source of energy as that of the interplanetary rockets, albeit on a vastly smaller scale.
It is recognized, at least from me.
Professor Eric Laithwaite demonstrated its existence when he raised that heavy gyroscope above his head with the gyro amplifying his energy input.
Curiously enough this earth reaction energy never seems to be recognised as such. It is the same source of energy as that of the interplanetary rockets, albeit on a vastly smaller scale.
It is recognized, at least from me.
Professor Eric Laithwaite demonstrated its existence when he raised that heavy gyroscope above his head with the gyro amplifying his energy input.
Clearly, the gyro is trying to lift the plate. It is exerting an anti-gravity force on the plate.
This is because the horizontal force pushing Edwin's trolley has been suppressed.
Game set and match.
Of course Edwin's trolley demonstration will have to be independently confirmed.
After all, he might have had his little brother pulling the trolley back and forth with a fine thread. Or it might even have been generated by AI. :-o
Any member like to confirm the trolley experiment?
It would be a pity of that chance went to a non-forum member on U Tube.
Last edited by Senax on Wed Jan 15, 2025 4:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
AVE MARIA, gratia plena, Dominus tecum. Ô Marie, conçue sans péché, priez pour nous qui avons recours à vous.
