Terragravitic Induction

[johannesbender]

Given enough input energy you can achieve many great things.

[Fletcher]

Here is the inertial propulsion experiment using an oblique pendulum on a cart that I mentioned had similar results IINM to your experiments Frank .. you might be interested in the comparison after seeing the video ..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuTMYgQDUzs

[Senax]

Here is the inertial propulsion experiment using an oblique pendulum on a cart that I mentioned had similar results IINM to your experiments Frank .. you might be interested in the comparison after seeing the video ..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuTMYgQDUzs

Very nice build.
You obviously have the skills to build a trolley without having to resort to meccano.
All you need in addition is a decent gyroscope. :-)

[Fletcher]

The vid is 15 years old, and not made by me lol ..

[Senax]

LOL.
Sorry about that.
My dinner must have been getting cold so I didn't get further than looking at the video.
It was probably interrupted by one of those damned videos on how to reduce belly fat.

[justsomeone]

In the video Fletcher, is there a way to improve the impact of the rolling weight? If the weight landed on a padded surface or on a spring, would that have increased the travel distance?

[Fletcher]

In the video Fletcher, is there a way to improve the impact of the rolling weight?

If the weight landed on a padded surface or on a spring, would that have increased the travel distance?

Let's assume air frictions are about the same for both the rolling ball experiment and the oblique pendulum experiment .. when he lets the ball roll down the slope we are looking at classic dissipative energy losses - the ball has rolling ( kinetic ) frictions which eat up some of its PE so that its KE is slightly less than the PE it has lost - then it collides with the end wall of the cart - both the ball and the cart wall will deform slightly and this this is another dissipative energy loss - usually about 50% of KE is lost in collisions using ordinary materials ( this has to do with the Coefficient of Restitution COR / Elasticity of the materials ) ..

If we place a padded surface on the wall it will deform a lot and we will lose maximum KE, so the cart will move forward only once and stop - if we put a spring in there it would give back most of the KE it receives on impact ( but not all as there is no perfect spring ( rubber and steel have an Elasticity of about 0.95 ) ) pushing the ball back up the slope a short ways - so the result would be a series of short forward 'hops' until it stops ..

The oblique pendulum experiment does not have any rolling frictions ( it does have pivot frictions ) , and there are zero dissipative energy losses to collisions because there aren't any - so the act of the pendulum swinging uses its inertia to move the cart forward, and each swing it loses a little PE and KE until it dampens down and stops - but the cart hops down the track until the pendulums inertial changes cease .. that's why it is called inertial propulsion ( as long as you restore the pendulum swing ) ..

In short the oblique swinging pendulum is about the most efficient way to convert PE to distance traveled by the cart because it has few energy losses .N.b> this is off the top of my head because I haven't looked at the video in years, and just found it and posted it for Frank to consider alongside his experiments with what I consider is inertial propulsion from his gyro experiment ..

Hope that helps, and no I haven't done the experiments ..

[johannesbender]

Imo milkovick is comparing apples and oranges at the end of the weights gpe drops.

[Senax]

Post by Fletcher » Sat 17 Dec, 2022 12:03 am

Maybe you should teach it about the Blackbird (Down Wind Faster Than The Wind vehicle) heading directly into Wind at ground speed 1.8 times Wind Speed. That was always the proof that lift force (thrust) was far greater than drag forces and could be turned into mechanical energy lol.

A good example of earth reaction energy.

An easier one to understand is the Ventomobile which heads directly into the wind.
Part of the wind energy is directed to the wheels which drive it into the wind.
This, of course, increases the relative wind speed which provides even more energy
to the wheels until and equilibrium is reached between wind speed and ground speed.

You were faster off the mark than I on the Blackbird. ;-)

The interesting thing about the Blackbird is that the wind is at right angles to the trolley.
In the case of Edwin's Trolley the Gravitational "Wind" is also at right angles.
(I know that the idea of gravity being viewed as a wind isn't popular with some members
but if its good enough for John (and Newton) it should be good enough for us)

[Tarsier79]

The interesting thing about the Blackbird is that the wind is at right angles to the trolley.

Is it? The Blackbird is DWFTTW. So the wind is blowing with the blackbird, but at a slower pace.

[Senax]

The interesting thing about the Blackbird is that the wind is at right angles to the trolley.

Is it? The Blackbird is DWFTTW. So the wind is blowing with the blackbird, but at a slower pace.

Down Wind Faster Than The Wind

Thanks for correcting that.
I must have been thinking of yachts where the boat can travel virtually at right angles to the wind.
In the case of a yacht the "earth" reaction energy is, of course, that of the lowered keel pressing against the water on the downwind side.

Thanks again.

[Senax]

I've now realized that the action of the Ventomobile is the key to the Bessler and Laithwaite puzzles.
and that the "law" that gravity is conservative has to be made more specific.


First, a recap on the Ventomobile.

Rotor-powered examples have demonstrated ground speeds that exceed that of the wind, both directly into the wind and directly downwind by transferring power through a drive train between the rotor and the wheels

https://image.slidesharecdn.com/windene ... 5-2048.jpg

Now if there is a one in twenty slope, say, and the wind is blowing down along that slope it's pretty clear that the Ventomobile will be able to drive up that slope.

This insight can be extended to greater slopes and even to a vertical slope given suitable cogged wheels and track.

This takes us to the concept of gravity seen as a vertical wind which I share with at least one other member, namely, John Collins, a founding member of this forum.

There is an implicit assumption in the idea that gravity is conservative, namely that mass is dead and motionless in its interior, the same false assumption that was made about pond water and water molecules.

This is the implicit assumption that Professor Laithwaites critics were making and they were
dead WRONG.

Mass is not dead,
It is very much alive.

All we need now is a Rocket Scientist to join all the bits together and make the case watertight.

********************************************
When the vampire squid gets wind of this he will doubtless start bundling
energy shares into complicated derivatives and selling them to unsuspecting customers.

[Senax]

I've dug this out from my old posts. It's relevant to the mass being alive and not dead.

The old OverUnity forum run by that chap with a German name seems to have disappeared.
Does anyone know what happened to it?

Since primemignonite has raise the interesting subject of an ‘Impossible’ space drive' which is very relevant to the 'Impossible Bessler Wheel' I thought I'd bump this thread by enlarging my previous post on the subject of inertia and mass.

Mass (inertia) is a property of matter, not matter itself. If you speed up a body its mass (inertia) increases but the amount of stuff, the number of atoms and nuclei doesn't increase.

Also consider rotation. If you fill a black box with running gyros then by fixing them or allowing them to be free within gimbals you can make enormous changes to the rotational inertia. If you didn't know what was inside the box and thought of it as a inert lump you would think that its "mass" had changed.

I first realized mass was a property of motion, not of substance when working as a government scientific officer on materials research.

I wrote:

"Increase in the speed of an inertial body relative to its environment (characterized by an environmental speed) is accompanied by a transformation of the internal velocity, v, into an external velocity u. In other words the external kinetic energy is derived from the internal kinetic energy, or in simpler hierarchical terms, external motion is derived from internal motion. Clearly this is a more mundane and intelligible explanation with the change in inertia with increasing speed than that normally given, an explanation moreover that is fully in accordance with the behaviour of a substance at a higher scale as exemplified by the kinetic theory of heat.

In effect inertial substances are seen as active, not passive; as containing servo-mechanisms, force amplifiers. The energy put into accelerating a body is merely a control energy which is proportional to, but at non-relativistic speeds, a minute fraction of the total energy needed to overcome inertial effects. As the speed of the body reaches speeds comparable with the characteristic field speed the servo-mechanisms become less and less effective until at the speed of light all the energy has to be applied from external sources."

I realise it is very difficult for people to believe that when they push against an object to accelerate it, they are only doing the equivalent of turning their steering wheel (in a modern car) but nature has evidently developed servo-mechanisms long before we thought of them. Not surprising really is it?

The way one can be deceived by internal servos can easily be demonstrated in the case of rotational inertia by filling a black box with free running gyros in gimbals. If the gimbals are free then it is easy to rotate the box. Lock the gimbals and the rotational inertia (mass if you didn't understand what mass really is and didn't know what was going on) increases enormously.

Likewise, any decent engineer could devise a railway waggon where if you pushed against it with a force of 1 pound, release of gyro energy would drive the wheels with a force of 1000 pounds.

The human pusher would be deceived into thinking that the mass of the carriage was far less than in reality since he would judge the mass from the acceleration produced by the force he applied. He would not realise that the energy he was putting in was merely a control energy which was being multiplied a thousand times by the machinery inside the waggon.

One of the overunity forum members (spinner - a lurking member of this forum) asked me to explain how this human pusher could achieve such an amplification of his force.

I answered - at length:

"You cover the inner side of the wagon walls with strain gauges. Remember this isn't meant to be a practical blueprint but an explanation of principle.

The strain gauges pick up the amount of pressure and the length of time that pressure is applied.

This information is transmitted to a controller which instructs the flywheels/gyros to power the wagon wheels by the appropriate amount. So the wagon accelerates. When the person takes his hand away the acceleration stops and the wagon carries on rolling forward at the speed it reached at the end of the push, the end of the acceleration. It would seem to the man pushing as though he had accelerated the wagon cos the machinery inside is so well made that there in no vibration and no sound.

If the man continues to push the wagon to higher and higher speeds approaching that of light then the internal gyros will eventually become polarised and it will seem to the man that the inertia (which he interprets as mass) of the wagon was increasing. In fact it will merely be the efficiency of the servos which is decreasing."

Now this works for a wagon because one can transmit forces through the wheels to the track.

But how about a body in outer space? That manifests the same inertia. Surely, it has nothing for its internal gyros to grip on.

Mmmmmm......

Yes it has. It grips on the same thing that electromagnetic waves grip on. The very dense aether that is supposed not to exist. Sound waves require a atmosphere full of stuff. EM waves require an atmosphere much fuller of stuff - much, much, much fuller of stuff. The Victorians knew it. We refuse to think about it cos science has been usurped by mathematical physicists as Prof. Omnibus points out correctly, vigorously and at length. It's time engineers manned the barricades and took it back. And I predict that is shortly going to happen.

Increase in the speed of an inertial body relative to its environment (characterized by an environmental speed) is accompanied by a transformation of the internal velocity, v, into an external velocity u. In other words the external kinetic energy is derived from the internal kinetic energy, or in simpler hierarchical terms, external motion is derived from internal motion. Clearly this is a more mundane and intelligible explanation of change in inertia with increasing speed than that normally given, an explanation moreover that is fully in accordance with the behaviour of a substance at a higher scales as exemplified by the kinetic theory of heat.

In effect inertial substances are seen as active, not passive; as containing servo-mechanisms, force amplifiers. The energy put into accelerating a body is merely a control energy which is proportional to, but at non-relativistic speeds, a minute fraction of the total energy needed to overcome inertial effects. As the speed of the body reaches speeds comparable with the characteristic field speed the servo-mechanisms become less and less effective until at the speed of light all the energy has to be applied from external sources.

[Senax]

I will go further.

It is the gravitational wind that sustains all the hierarchies of rotational motion within material.
Just as the vertical rain sustains organic life so also the gravitational wind sustains material life.

Man looked in the long place for energy. Instead of looking down to hell and reaping that harvest he should have looked up to heaven. Lets hope we are not too late.

The quality of mercy is not strain'd.
It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven
Upon the place beneath. It is twice blest:
It blesseth him that gives and him that takes.
'Tis mightiest in the mightiest; it becomes
The thronèd monarch better than his crown.
His scepter shows the force of temporal power,
The attribute to awe and majesty
Wherein doth sit the dread and fear of kings;
But mercy is above this sceptered sway.
It is enthronèd in the hearts of kings;
It is an attribute to God Himself;
And earthly power doth then show likest God's
When mercy seasons justice. Therefore, Jew,
Though justice be thy plea, consider this:
That in the course of justice none of us
Should see salvation. We do pray for mercy,
And that same prayer doth teach us all to render
The deeds of mercy. I have spoke thus much
To mitigate the justice of thy plea,
Which, if thou follow, this strict court of Venice
Must needs give sentence 'gainst the merchant there.

[Georg Künstler]

Hi Senax,
a mass consists of many forms of energy.
The energy which is contained has different forms.

We look at a mass say 1 kg in front of our eye and we will see that this mass has no energy, we are in this direction blind.
But then we look further and have a closer look to this material.

When we have a material like a stone, we think it is worthless in the form of energy.
When we have a material like wood, we now from our experiance that this can burn, and we have for us usefill energy.
To extract this wood energy we need a lighter and we create a positive feedback loop, until the wood is burned.
It is an internal energy and we get an chemical reaction.

This 1 kg mass has also energy in the form of movement. Laying in front of you does not mean that this mass is not moving.
This mass is traveling with a speed of 1660 km/h, but you cannot detect this with your eyes, because you are also travelling with this speed.
What we can detect with our eyes is when we lift the mass and let it drop.
Therefore we have the formula E = m*g*h to describe this potential energy.

But the mass can also have a shape of a cylinder. Looking at this cylinder you can see a wheel.
When we rotate this cylinder/wheel the cylinder has also internal energy, but you cannot detect with you eye how much energy is contained.
So we have also a formula E = 1/2 J* w*w to describe this rotational energy.

What we cannot detect with our eyes is that we have an overlay between several forms of energy which is contained in this mass.
So in one mass we can have chemical energy, like wood, warmth, in the form of heat, movement, atom binding energy etc.

The focus for a Bessler wheel is the focus on the movement.
The formula for a rotating a cylinder is in my eyes incomplete because it does not have the speed of 1660 km/h included.
During the rotation of a cylinder the speed of one point of the rim is 1660 km/h + the speed of the travelling point
and after 180 degrees it is 1660 km/h - the speed of the travelling point.
So as a result we get an oscillation on a ring which has a diameter of 12000 Km and a scope of 40000 km.

To harvest energy from this circumstances we must manipulate the oscillation in that form, that we deform the sinus shape.
A manipulation can be done like it is described in Ezekiel, Wheels in wheels but not turning.
This form of movement leads to a swinging in space/room. Left and right and up and down with different accelerations.

I am pretty sure that Bessler was aware of Ezekiel.