Simple CrossBar Oscillator

[ovyyus]

Hans, doesn't the 10kg beam represent a greater oscillating system mass, therefore a greater system energy storage potential, which might result in the system continuing to oscillate for a longer period of time at a smaller amplitude?

[hansvonlieven]

Yes Bill,

the problem is the input energy is the same so where is the excess energy coming from if this thing is real?

Hans

Edit.

One would assume that energy is required to move the heavy beam in the first place. In fact the whole beam movement is a bit of a mystery to me.

[ovyyus]

Yes I understand about the input, but the amount of time it takes for that same input energy to dissipate is partly determined by the mass of the system and it's oscillation amplitude, ie: small mass oscillating at high amplitude for short period of time = large mass oscillating at low amplitude for long period of time.

[hansvonlieven]

True, but the beam is not oscillating, it is reciprocating.

If it was another pendulum I would agree with you but this thing shifts backwards and forwards, in other words it performs work.

That's the puzzle

Hans

[hansvonlieven]

I have just tried it without the springs and, even not so pronounced, the phenomenon persists.

One could argue that the springs turn it into an oscillating system. But without the springs it is decidedly odd.

Hans von Lieven

[ovyyus]

Yes Hans, a pendulum is just one example of oscillation.

Without springs the amplitude (sliding distance) of the beam is governed by the amplitude (swinging distance) of the pendulum. Both form a coupled oscillating system.

[ruggerodk]

Dear Hans,

You are so right about the spring-pendulum!

Unfurtunately I'm working on a MAC, and WM2D is for PC....:(

Somewhere on the net (I can't remember where, but I'm sure it was in someway connected to my research on Milkovic) I saw a 3D simulation of a similar type of pendulum suspended from a spring connected to a fixed pivot/beam point.

I think your suggestion with a horizontal 'roller' beam gives the pendulum a most needed extra push, and a smooth push that is. This push might be what Milkovic's Doubble Oscillator are looking for to create a loop.

Is it possible that you can make a GIF-animation of your simulation, please? That would be very helpfull...!

Do you have any measurement from the simulation you wanna share with us?

Oh...and Stewart:
I forgot to thank you for your research on the "lead"...and forgot to tell you, that the german word "Bley" is most similar to the Danish word for the same metal (Pd) which are "Bly"...- approx. 80% of our word comes from old german language btw.

Best regards
ruggero ;-)

[hansvonlieven]

G'day ruggero,

Milkovic is wrong when he says that there is no equal and opposite reaction in his machine and the so called mathematical proofs are bullshit.

To prove a point I made a simulation to show that the up and down motion does indeed create a swing in the pendulum and that it is a simple energy transfer without gain. Seeing that you have no WM2D I cannot give you the simulation, but i did make a while back an AVI of the simultion which I have on my website. It is rather lengthy, about 12 minutes and you have to watch it to the end to see what I am talking about.

You can find the AVI on Http://keelytech.com/overunity/milkovicdouble.avi

Have fun

Hans von Lieven

[hansvonlieven]

Yes Hans, a pendulum is just one example of oscillation.

Without springs the amplitude (sliding distance) of the beam is governed by the amplitude (swinging distance) of the pendulum. Both form a coupled oscillating system.

Yes, I get that, I am still not happy with the fact that a 10 kg beam is moved horizontally by a 1 kg weight on a pendulum and runs longer than the same pendulum on a fixed fulcrum.

I shall have to build it on the slim chance there is something interesting there in regards to secondary oscillations.

Hans von Lieven

[ruggerodk]

Dear Hans,

I've thought of some improvement of your simulation set up:

If we try to turn the whole rolling 'trail' (including spring and pendulum) into a complete lever...

...the pendulum's swing will make the pendulum roll to the swingside of the lever's pivotpoint (fulcrum)...

...and make the lever fall on the swingside.

When the pendulum reach the outerpoint where weightless appear, the spring will 'shoot' the pendulum back to the opposite side again, making the lever tip to the other side.

Ofcource with help from the pendulum swing.

Is it possible for you to make a simulation of this set up, you think?

OR...even better:

Make TWO connected pendulums, rolling on each side of the lever's pivotpoint
Like the TOY page...

regards
ruggero ;-)

[ruggerodk]

... a 10 kg beam is moved horizontally by a 1 kg weight ...

Isn't that excactly what we are looking for?

Isn't that what Bessler was referring to when he said :

"A great craftsman would be that man who can 'lightly' cause a heavy weight to fly upwards! Who can make a pound-weight rise as 4 ounces fall, or 4 pounds rise as 16 ounces fall."

Let the pendulum's swing roll (or move) the pendulum to the other side of the balance point

regards
ruggero ;-)

[Stewart]

Oh...and Stewart:
I forgot to thank you for your research on the "lead"

You're welcome - glad to help where I can.

Unfurtunately I'm working on a MAC, and WM2D is for PC....:(

What operating system do you have? If you're running OS X (tiger or leopard) you can run a program called crossover to get WM2D working (crossover doesn't work on PowerPCs)...

http://www.codeweavers.com/products/cxmac/

I run WM2D on my mac using this software. I used to use a virtual machine called Parallels ( http://www.parallels.com/ ) to run windows on my mac, but as I only needed windows for two applications (WM being one of them), I ended up ditching it and using crossover, as with crossover no windows installation/license is required. However, crossover is just a nice interface to WINE ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wine_(software) ), which is free, so you could actually set up the demo of WM2D on your mac using WINE at no cost if you're prepared to figure out how to configure it. Crossover just makes it easier. I'm not a big fan of using WM2D for our type of research, however it does sometimes have its uses so it's handy to be able to run it on the mac.

Stewart

[hansvonlieven]

Yes Ruggero,

I will make a simulation and an AVI so you can see it. Give me a couple of days.

Hans von Lieven

[ruggerodk]

Thanks a lot Stewart,
I didn't know of the existense of this 'crossover' program.
I'm on OS X.4.10....tiger, leopard, lion or sable....I really don't know, shame on me ;-o

But I give it a try and I'll have a close look at the links you provided - big appreciation

ruggero ;-)

[ruggerodk]

That sounds great Hans...you are my man ;-D

BTW time is running late in Scandinavia ... I mean, to you we are upside down here at the winter Northpole (time is 01:40) and you having summer an'all.

Talk to you later - I'm diggin' in...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

regards
ruggero ;-)