Interesting Design

mindsweeper · Post by **mindsweeper** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 6:27 pm

Hi all, 1st post here

It was recommended I come here and share a wm2d file with you. I'm not saying anything about working wheels or that I have indeed managed to find something. I'm posting to open debate on the phenomenon.

If you have wm2d then please take a look and run some tests. This simulation does not start if the wheel is placed in a resting position but if a weight is placed on top it will gather momentum from the falling pendulum.

KAS · Post by **KAS** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 7:41 pm

Welcome mindsweeper,

Thanks for the demo but many here can't access WM2D so what I do is add a screenshot of the design as well.

This oval slider is fascinating to watch but I wouldn't add any credence to it.

Attached is another design based on Bessler's loose pendulum design. This also includes an oval slider but it is set on the pendulum pivot.

It illustrates a working wheel but I doubt if it would work in reality.

Kas

mindsweeper · Post by **mindsweeper** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 8:39 pm

Hi KAS, Thanks for the welcome, it's nice to be here.

Kas, I ask you why you dismiss my model so quickly, comparing it with a wheel that acts as it should only to reverse and slow down at frame 3700 ish. If you rum my model from load it ramps up. Runs all the way to 30,000+ frames gathering momentum.

Is it to be dismissed so quickly?

EDIT: The actual frame your model keels is at frame 3220 Kas...

hansvonlieven · Post by **hansvonlieven** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:13 pm

G'day Dave,

Welcome to this forum. I have been playing a little with your design and I am beginning to harbour the suspicion that you have struck yet another bug in WM2D

Have a look at this.

Hans von Lieven

mindsweeper · Post by **mindsweeper** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:21 pm

Hans, you changed the mass of the bob to 0.010 and it's position is now push and not pull, it can only fail.

hansvonlieven · Post by **hansvonlieven** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:28 pm

but it isn't failing, it's running more vigorously in the simulation

Hans

mindsweeper · Post by **mindsweeper** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:41 pm

Ahh, yes. I see what you mean.

But inevitably you must change the angle of the bob to make it stop.

Not that I'm condoning the design. The discussion is exactly my reason for posting.

I honestly thought the sim was sound in it's form presented.

Have we taken measurements from the sim and analyzed them. Or do you think WM2D is so sketchy it's not worth bothering with?

hansvonlieven · Post by **hansvonlieven** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:43 pm

I'm sorry to say, but your simulation is invalid.

I know now what you have done. When you first started the programme you got an error message something like object x is overlapping object b do you wish to continue?

Evidently you pressed yes and this is when the whole thing went haywire. WM2D cannot handle 3 dimensional arrangements and that is what you have here. One of the smaller wheels is overlapping the large wheel at the startup.

After you override the programme's objections to this it goes haywire. I missed it first time through because it gives you the warning only once. It wasn't until I copied your arrangement into a new file when it showed up.

Sorry

Hans von Lieven

mindsweeper · Post by **mindsweeper** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 9:52 pm

ooh, that does not happen with when I run it, and never has.

I can also recreate the model and it runs every time I make it. Even with slight alterations to the masses and positions which show in the measurements.

So to be honest I'm losing faith in WM2D. The only real way is to spend and build.

hansvonlieven · Post by **hansvonlieven** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 10:18 pm

You are correct, WM2D can be a good guide if the models are simple but the ultimate test is a prototype.

There are a lot of bugs in WM2D. I have a whole collection of perpetual motion machines that run in WM2D. Here is one of them put together by Stefan Hartmann.

Hans von Lieven

mindsweeper · Post by **mindsweeper** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 10:30 pm

Just like this reproduction, with no errors.

mindsweeper · Post by **mindsweeper** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 10:35 pm

Yes Hans, I did see that, and it's still a sticky on the forum..

Stewart · Post by **Stewart** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 10:51 pm

I don't see any overlap error Hans. When you copy and paste in working model the new objects revert to your default collision setting, which in your case I presume was 'collide'.

mindsweeper - your accuracy settings are far too low - try setting animation step to 100/s. In WM2D I've seen many a perpetuum mobile at low accuracy settings become a perpetuum stabile at higher settings!

Stewart

ruggerodk · Post by **ruggerodk** » Mon Jan 19, 2009 11:28 pm

mindsweeper wrote:So to be honest I'm losing faith in WM2D. The only real way is to spend and build.

I fully agree with you there!

Microsoft platform sucks!...Buy a Mac ;-)

Still though, I beg you to upload a AVI file (small resolution) also.

ruggero ;-)

mindsweeper · Post by **mindsweeper** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:18 am

I wonder if I had made the model NOT RUN, we would be able to talk about the mechanism and how the free fall pendulum within the wheel is acting or reacting with the imbalanced rotating mass.

Do we not see energy from the Milkovic device with the pendulum and lever.

Anyhow I'd love to upload a vid but I'm unable to make them small, this PC is provided by work and I can only install low level software. Things like codec's and plug-in's don't seem to work if not installed as admin.

BesslerWheel.com

Interesting Design

Interesting Design

re: Interesting Design

re: Interesting Design

re: Interesting Design

re: Interesting Design

re: Interesting Design

re: Interesting Design

re: Interesting Design

re: Interesting Design

re: Interesting Design

re: Interesting Design

re: Interesting Design

Re: re: Interesting Design

re: Interesting Design