We don't care the Bessler wheel, the most important is to build a working wheel...

[path_finder]

I want here just finish the chapter on the elliptical path:

The mechanism below in the animation 6xFb_15.gif is directly coming from my research on the 'flowerbowl'.
These design is based on SIX weights.
All rods have the same lenght (R/2).
You can see the expansion/reduction motion of the blue lozenges.
This 'scissor jack' structure is very efficient.
Make a replicate and you will be very surprised.

Note:
For those of the readers wich never heart about this strange trilobed structure, you will find some explanation here:
Dean Baker flowerbowl explanation:
http://www.ianlawton.com/am12.htm
As you can understand the proposed use ('temple lamp') is ridiculous, and it's the same for the supposed use given by the archeologists in 1936 (flowerbowl).

Anyway. I want to take here the opportunity to thanks Mr Gill Simo for having attracted my attention on the flowerbowl in 2004.
You can find in this forum many studies he made earlier on the subject par example here:
http://www.besslerwheel.com/gill/11.9.03/index.html.
I made myself the retro-engineering of this object by using some geometrical considerations and a lot of experiments.
Just remember the flowerbowl is much more efficient than the Bessler wheel, for several reasons, the first and almost important being the artifact of this structure allowing the division of the overall size by two. But this is another subject, and I have no intent here to give to much information for the moment.

[path_finder]

For a better understanding, an animation showing the mechanism of the flowerbowl: here the wheel still remains fixed, only the axis rotates.

I'm a little bit confused. Apart greendoor nobody seems to be here...
Speaking in the desert, I need a small encouragement.

[path_finder]

Let's return to the previous question: How to lift up a weight between 4:00 and 6:00 o'clock?
Before to continue on the double cam system, I want just submit at your reflexion the following design (see the animation legsE.gif below):
The idea is to use each cylindrical weight as a winch
In the middle of the weight is a pulley, linked with an internal spiral spring and a ratchet.
When the weight reaches 4:00 a trigger unlocks the spiral spring, and the cord is pulled around the pulley, approaching the weight from the previous one.
The locker can be dependant of the angle of the rod, in view to release the spiral spring at the right moment.
On the animation the holding cords (retaining the weights at the left part of the path), are not represented, only those in charge of the retract.

(Note for the Bessler's fans: this idea is not completely stupid as Bessler never showed his weights (only for touching across a tissue) and the witnesses heart some cracking noise. May be, the secret was inside his weights...Remember the crayfish tail too)
Just for the curiosity, I would like to know if anybody has attempted such as mechanism.

[DrWhat]

path_finder, I think your designs are excellent. My view is you are still waging a huge battle against the law of conservation of energy, just in more elaborate and intelligent ways.

As we veer (hopefully) towards the Bessler wheel discovery, your mechanisms may become an integral part of the final wheel. But I can't help thinking that with all the awesome designs you have shown that a secondary mechanism is needed with an unexpected outcome. As to what that secondary mechanism/movement is, well that's the holy grail!

Many people watch I'm sure, but you may be to many steps ahead for any comments to add anything.

Don't give up. I am always fascinated by what you will produce next. You just need to have that breakthrough moment, and you'll know when you have it!

Damian

[path_finder]

Many thanks DrWhat for your post.
Are you speaking about this?
(all parts of my wheels were transparent)

[Bill_Mothershead]

I'm a little bit confused. Apart greendoor nobody seems to be here...
Speaking in the desert, I need a small encouragement.

Lots of people are probably looking...
...maybe not understanding....
...maybe not having much to contribute...
but we ARE here and
we encourage to to continue.

[coylo]

I'm a little bit confused. Apart greendoor nobody seems to be here...
Speaking in the desert, I need a small encouragement.

I have to say that your animations and illustrations are excellent, Path_Finder. I'm impressed!
It's so refreshing to see this and I appreciate the care and effort gone into these diagrams. Too many members just post up a load of old text to describe something or other..... which just makes me switch off.

Although, I do agree with Dr What in that your designs do confirm to the Law of CoE, however they do inject a bit of life into the forum, inspire, encourage and therefore may spark further ideas.

Keep up the good work!

[jupter]

path_finder
this post has been a very exciting read of the work you have done .
a jigsaw at its best !!
your last pic is that one of 6 (one in each weight?)
jupter

[rlortie]

path_finder,

I find your input here very inspirational and appreciate the innovation you possess. Your attentiveness here is not in vain. you have opened my eyes to see ideas based on your animated designs.

In fact one such machine is now under construction inspired by your influence here, if anything comes of it you will be the first to know and recognized for being the catalyst that inspired it.

Ralph

[path_finder]

Many thanks for all your encouragements, in particular Bill_Mothershead, coylo, jupter, and rlortie.
My intent was not to receive any reconnaissance, but without feedback I was a little bit worried about the interest of my literature.
My strategy was: start from scratch, respect the main laws of the physic, justify everything and do not neglect any idea.
For sure I have an particular admiration for Bessler (which in addition cannot use any computer) but he is just for me a solution among severals.
I'm pretty sure that someone found already one of the various solutions, not sharing it for some reasons (Asa Jackson, buzzsaw, Bessler, Tesla, etc).
I hope all these shared data will be helpful for the fans of gravitic engines to build some new wheels.
I'm not interested to destabilize the economy (we continue to need the oil for the plastics), and certainly not allowing the disappearance of the electricity power companies by any uncontrolled systematization of gravitic generators in all basements (we have enough unemployment today and the industry has some very high power needs).
On my side I'm only interested to reduce the size of the flowerbowl (this is my priority), in view to include it inside my new indoor merry-go-round (it was my original quest).
You can see here in second position, a picture of my 1/5 scaled template, a reduced version of the final unit, wich allowed me to build my industrial file and to compute the manufacturing cost.
It includes also a limonaire with a list of old fashion melodies (the first picture is a full sized, not decorated yet unit).

[AB Hammer]

path_finder

Your animations have been interesting to say the least. Also this string has been one of the most colorful that I have seen. I have my own line of thought and my hands full because of it. So if what I am doing, don't pan out for some reason, I may give yours a try. I also agree with Ralph where credit is due.

Thanks
Alan

[path_finder]

How to lift-up the weights between 4:00 and 6:00 o'clock?
In a previous post I suggested to use a double cam mechanism to do that.
But we observed that the rotation speed of the colored pulleys was the HALF of the main wheel speed.
The question is: 'How to obtain an alternate motion of the pulleys rotating at the SAME SPEED than the main wheel?'
The solution seems to be easy: just divide the speed of the rotating cam (the yellow one) by two.
This is an example of the 'wrong friend' assumption, because if we do that, the pulley continue to rotate but not at the SAME speed than the wheel.
If we say OMEGA the speed of the wheel, the only solution is to have one cam with a OMEGA PLUS DELTA rotation speed, and the other cam with a rotation speed of OMEGA MINUS DELTA (DELTA is any value).Only in that case the pulleys will follow the wheel at the same speed.
On the next animation follows this condition, and now we can use the pulleys for retaining the weights at the right time.
Note that the wheel is still stopped in this animation (only the both cams are moving), for the only purpose to show the two cams mutual position. Now we need to rotate the assembly...

[ectropy]

Hi Path Finder, Interesting animations, must have required some deep thought BUT the "Flower Bowl" design? The parallelograms CAN collapse IMO. And if the Fulcrum point which is offset from the main Shaft Axis is to be fixed, this will not produce a runner as the torque acting on the main shaft (or axel) is now offset (transfered) and will result in "lockup". My belief is that any and all mechanisms to control the placement or movement of weights should rotate about and be co-insident to the Axis of the main shaft. I have built a few prototypes which confirmed this. I believe Besseler has made reference to something to this effect. But how to make the mechanism`s rotation co-insident to the main shaft axis when the weight travel path is offset? Difficult one but not impossible.
We all expect and obviously want our designs to work which (and I will speak for myself) creates tunnel vision. Animations or simulations help tremendously but are not the Holy Grail. I utilize a 3D package with Simulation according to the accepted Laws of Physics but running it today and running it tomorrow produce different results. I have changed my attitude. "OK I have finished a design, now make it NOT work". Up the next morning after a good nights sleep (tunnel vision gone). Ok, lets analize the design, oops back to the drawing board (PC). Lots cheaper and crumbs the designs gets more and more complex. Fun at times but oh sooooo frustrating sometimes. Good Luck. I really enjoy your posts. Regards.

[path_finder]

Dear Ectropy,
Thanks for your post.
I agree with your opinion on the 2D/3D simulation software.
Sometime you need to make yourself the experiments.

The parallelograms CAN collapse IMO
You are absolutely right: see the first shot below.
The second shot shows all the rods (including the small radius one)
This is the reason why the three internal rods are so much important.
Make the COG (center of gravity, for the new guests) calculation of this structure.
Surprise: it can be moved around the axis.
If your observe the lenght of each rod, you will find that the maximum small radius available with this structure is one sixt of the main radius.
Let's compare with the flowerbowl original dimensions.

[path_finder]

I want to go back on the suggested design legsE.gif shown above.
I'm a little sad to see the poor level of interest for this clever design.

In a previous post I explained that any engine based ONLY on the gravitational field, won't work.
We need an additional effect.
I gave the example of the Archimedes principe for the lift-up of the weights (see the animation in a previous page).
But we can use any external effect to do that (some magnets, the Coriolis force, the centrifugal effect, etc.)
In this context there is a solution allowing the realization of the legsE.gif design:

Since the beginning, and based on the paranoid behavior of Bessler, I was suspecting a tricky feature inside the weights (explaining the care made by him do not show their details). The secret could be INSIDE the weights. Let's me explain (this is just a suggestion, I have no information at all at this subject) the content of these weights.
Let's suppose that the weights consist in a hollow tube with an internal axis supporting two 'HALF-MOON' parts (rotating freely) and a SPIRAL SPRING (one end connected to the cylinder and the another end connected to the axis where the both parts are attached).
see the drawing weight4.png below.
We suppose first that a clutch mechanism locks the cylinder with the rod at 6:00 o'clock.
Afternow the cylinder is fixed to the rod.
If you follow the path of the cylinder between 6:00 and 4:00 (passing on the left side and through 12:00) you can observe an 300 grades rotation around itself.
The internal weights remaining vertical during the same time, do have turned the spiral spring of 300 grades also.
An internal ratchet could be included also in view to avoid the reversed force.
When the weight reaches the 4:00 position, the clutch mechanism will liberate the spiral spring.
If a cord is attached at the outer surface of the cylinder, the weight is pulled forward, giving the requested motion.
The clutch mechanism is not represented on the drawing.
Note the conical end of the axis (reported somewhere), allowing a good rotation...
What do you think about?