We don't care the Bessler wheel, the most important is to build a working wheel...

[path_finder]

Dear AB_hammer,
Thanks for discussing.
The three brown circulars parts at the end of each leg of the tripod, are NOT some weights (The COG is anyway at the center of the tripod) but some BEARINGS ROLLERS. The tripod can be part of a more complex mechanism.

[greendoor]

path_finder - thanks for sharing your amazing ideas and animations. They are all amazing, but that tripod one blows me away with it's elegant simplicity.

I feel we are still missing the energy input that is necessary to overcome friction. This is why I am very interested in the maths of Jim Mitch & Pequaide who have presented different yet similar theoretical models that may supply this energy. (Obviously at odds with the staunch believers in the Laws of TD - but all science is based on heretical thoughts that question the established thought patterns).

For a long time I have held the belief that free energy requires collisions between two seperate inertial reference frames. If our models don't break out of the same reference frame, I can't see any chance for over-unity. But when two or more different worlds collide - I think there is room within existing laws for energy gain. This is why I feel Bessler tells us that impacts are required, and why his wheel was distinguished by the sound of impacts.

Impacts are lossy - but if the configuration is right there is plenty of surplus energy to overcome the losses. (Where this ultimately comes from, doesn't really matter at the practical level. I'm convinced that the universe is nothing but energy, we just can't see the forest for all the trees ...)

The focus needs to be on the prime mover mechanism that manifests the surplus energy. A mechanism for converting all the momentum of a heavy flywheel, pendulum or beam into vertical lift seems like a good place to start. Ideally, the heavy mass would be brought to a complete stop, and all the momentum would be transfered to the lighter mass. Easier said than done ... but I suspect this is where Bessler triumphed ... if we can lift 4 with a fall of 1, there a millions of different mechanisms that could exploit that. Bessler seemed to come up with different versions as needs and criticismns dictated. But I presume the prime mover principle never changed.

[ectropy]

Hi Pathfinder, With respect the "tripod" is an excellent example of animation adding no value other than proving geometry. The wheel would turn if the Tripod itself was overbalanced but then, as you would now have a potential runner why add friction by driving another wheel? Animation can violate all the laws of physics at will but once again, useful for proving geometry. Regards.

[path_finder]

Dear ectropy,
You are absolutely right (nothing will happen in that state).
I made the mention of this animation in view just to show a basic part of a much complex assembly.
I'm only a little be sad by the remark of broli (regarding the replacement by some gear) because it's exactly here the basic point:

Remember, we were seeking more earlier for a straigh line from 9:00 to 3:00 and passing by the central axis.
Everybody knows the basic property of an hypocycloid having a radius equal to the half of the big circle.
For those not familiar with the geometry i put here a small animation showing this property. (for some reasons you need to click on the picture for a better view).


If you observe well the tripod, you will see that the end of the legs are all located on a such half radius circle.
Let's suppose now that we need to multiply this kind of circle (three per example), it's obvious we cannot because these three circles will occupate a same place (a rosacea) at the center. Instead, by using three tripods we will be able to do the job (the legs pass through the center alternatively without shocking).
This is the reason why the tripod design is interesting (instead the gears).
I have no intent to give any final solution, I'm just sharing some parts of the puzzle allowing a full reassembling.

[broli]

Don't be sad about it. Because that's what it is and that's what your last drawing is as well. Whether you use gears or some slot joints the end result is still the same. You'd have an inner wheel that is spinning two times faster than the outer big wheel. Only are gears more easy to adjust the speed ratio unlike the tripod.

[path_finder]

Thanks to broli for it's post.

I want to go back on my previous post above.
ectropy is right, telling that an animation can be pernicious. Here is a good example:
In the previous post the animation showed an horizontal straigh line, but only if the outer circle remain still fixed.
It's not what we are willing to...

In fact if the big wheel rotates we must combine the both motions.
Please see first this picture coming from this dynamic Web page:
http://www.univ-lemans.fr/enseignements ... cyclo.html
(for the caesar courtesy)
We will obtain a curve like a clover.

So how to recover the original straight line? easy...Make a compensation motion...
fix the center of the small rolling circle on the outer rim of another wheel (having a radius equal to the half radius of the big wheel too), rotating counterclockwise with a rotation speed equal to the big one but in opposite direction.
But in that case it's forbidden to touch the big wheel.
How to let roll in that case the small circle?
May be the tripod can be useful.
This is the same kind of problem like the 'buzzsaw' internal gear mechanism (the question of the ratio value).
I leave you thinking about.

[path_finder]

Dear ectropy,
You said The wheel would turn if the Tripod itself was overbalanced.
Why do not go further?
Suppose the legs of the tripod are hollow and the brown circles are some heavy balls.
Just install some railroad switch in view to oblige the balls to turn right instead to fall down in the lowest leg.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Railroad_switch
Any suggestion?

[ectropy]

Hi Pathfinder, That`s just it! We don`t have an overbalanced wheel yet. Back to square one. I am afraid I do not consider sliding or rolling weights as a viable option. You have in the past posted a few designs where the individual weights could rotate about an axis. The position of these axis on the wheel would never deviate. Do you realise what you have here. Stay with this feature.

[path_finder]

Let's go back to the mechanism needed for the reversed motion discussed in the post above.
Several ways can be used to do that.
One of them is a particular planetary gear, NOT this shown previously and rotating in a single plane, but this IN 3D like for the cars.
The following picture gives the principe: the two wheels A (green) and B (yellow) are in two vertical parallel planes, rotating on the same horizontal axis.
The two satellites (orange and blue) are rotating on the same axis PERPENDICULAR with the main axis.
NOTE: The teeth are not represented on the picture.
As at it's standard position this (grey) axis will remain horizontal (linked to the external frame through a tube on the main axis par example), but by rotating this tube we can reduce or accelerate the rotation speed of the B wheel, as standard with a rotational speed equal to A wheel, but reversed (anticlockwise).
Now this assembly must be completed with some other parts.
Do you have any idea?

[murilo]

In a little delay, I must comment!
After his previous statement and some complains, Broli said:
''I did not intend to offend anyone. I just stated what I see. On one side you have retired people with machine shops and experience and on the other young people with new ideas with little to no resources. Why cant these veterans help these youngsters out? It's called solidarity. I don't care about the money let's just help each other out.''
Broli is absolutely right in his thinking and one of the complainners is exactly J_Mich, the ''prince'' of this behavior style!
I needed to take a dictionary to get some help and here are some words that possible will define the question: ''contempt, ignoring, disdain, disregard and neglect''.
This is true, specially when dealing to a daring south-american monkey.
Fortunately and very early, I learned to take care of myself but what could be a refined, interesting and idealistic meeting is transformed in mean behaviors and pvt gossips.
Best regards and have a great week!
Murilo SP march/15th

[rlortie]

Path_finder,

Where as you are running this thread in "General Discussion" and have not made any statements regarding copyright material. Please be advised that I have downloaded your complete album into one document folder for my own reference.

You have done a marvelous job of feeding this forum with material that should keep us busy for a while!

Ralph

[docfeelsgood]

Good point Murilo ;

the princes believe "If you Can't Dazzle Them With Brilliance ,,, Baffle Them With Bull Shit " !!!

[rlortie]

Of course on the other hand, if you do offer help you are bitten in the arse by implications of holding up progress.

You cannot please all the people all the time, some can take negative input, some cannot.

Ralph

[rlortie]

Path_Finder,

Regarding your 'Twin_wheels1.png

I constructed a 4' wheel of counter rotating disks. Its purpose was for a third party so will remain confidential. I can however discuss my counter rotating drive principle.

A picture is worth a thousand words: Disk #1and axle are mounted on a backer board. Four sets of idler brackets were added holding Roller blade wheels, after placement of disc #2 another set of wheels where spring loaded keeping tension on both disks.

The wheels are running on a tempered hardboard ring, texture side exposed. No slippage was noted.

Ralph

[docfeelsgood]

LORD Smoothbore ;
Have you demoted yourself to a beggerly PRINCE ???
perish the thought !!!