Sjack Abeling's Gravity Wheel.

[ovyyus]

I think you must be trying to break your addiction, Bill. ;-)

Actually I'm just as excited now about a solution to Bessler's wheel as I was when I started. Now that's truly addicted :)

I think it's entirely possible to launch a weight into the air and have it attain a height greater than is expected by the launch energy alone. Perhaps Bessler exploited the thermal relationship between a rapidly accelerated specifically shaped mass and the environment through which it moves. Is it possible that thermal separation around the accelerating mass can be harnessed to increase forward momentum for the cost of a cold wake? This is easy to do in a wind, I think Bessler's trick was doing it inside a cavity.

Sorry, I think Bessler found a new and novel method of harnessing a real thermal energy source. I find this line of reasoning more interesting (and more plausible) than trying to invent a new and unlikely physics which might upend all our observations about gravity and inertia to date. Clearly not for everyone though.

BTW, same old talk and zero available demonstration leaves me with little hope that Abeling is more than a wannabe. We should easily recognise a wannabe by now :D

[greendoor]

IF the media information is correct, and IF this system has government interest (of any country) and IF these plants will be "located in closed bunkers" - then it would seem that the only purpose of those "closed bunkers" is to keep the method of operation a close secret.

Something as significant as this - if it works and is being considered by any government - will not have escaped the attention of the power elite who have military, political & economic objectives to uphold. This will never be allowed to happen without a fight.

The first principle of war is deception. Expect this whole issue to be completely obscured with disinformation from the get go. Expect forums such as this and overunity to be monitored and subtley directed, by whatever means necessary.

Sometimes it is not what is said that is deceptive. Sometimes it is what is not said. It's interesting to study Sun Tzu's 'The Art of War' to get an understanding of how this game is played. Expect a lot of smoke screens & red herrings to divert attention away from the real issue.

Fletcher - I believe your line of inquiry is where the truth is to be found.

I could be wrong, of course. I'm biased, because I have my own theory and the math looks convincing to me, but my build skills are slowing me down at the moment.

[greendoor]

he he - just had an evil thought. Maybe this is a political con job, to make the public think that gravity power is possible. Then, small nuclear plants could be installed in 'closed bunkers' and nobody would be any the wiser. The greenies would be silenced, the power elite would rake in the money, the politicians would revel in their tax take ...

One thing is fairly sure - electric power is being promoted (e.g plugin electric cars), at a time when failing infrastructures are not being upgraded. My guess is that the people in the know have been expecting something like this for a while ...

[Grimer]

This is how I see the Abeling power cycle.

The acceleration leg is obviously the right hand side of the motor where the weight move through a semicircle. The adiabatic leg is less obvious. It is the left hand side where the weights are forced in towards the centre of the wheel.



What bugged me for some time was this. The classic Carnot cycle has four legs, two isothermal and two adiabatic but the Abeling cycle seemed to only have two. I could see that if one rotated the isogravitic and the adiabatic arms as a weight travelled around as shown below



then one would only need two arms. It's as though one had a two-stroke Carnot cycle instead of the traditional four stroke cycle.

Then it struck me that problem completely disappears and we can have one to one mapping if we just have enough imagination to choose a bespoke graph paper.

The importance of the right graph paper can be seen from the huge simplification which comes from choosing logarithmic scales rather than linear scales. The cycle legs are transformed from awkward power curves into straight lines. We can carry this further by using a graph paper which is tailored specifically for the Abeling wheel. The individual increments of the cycle legs will have the same vector as the wheel circumference. We don't have to do this in practice, merely to recognise that this type of one to one mapping between graphical representation and physical device can be made.

If bespoke circular mapping graph paper were to be adopted for the traditional Carnot shown in this animation

http://galileoandeinstein.physics.virgi ... carnot.htm

then one could see that the spot traveling around the diagrammatic representation could b linked to the motion of the wheel by a single straight link.

==============================================================

ITERMISSION

==============================================================

Oh no! Oh no!

I've just seen what Count Karl, Landgrave of Hesse Cassel, saw. 8-|

Goodness gracious me. It really is that simple.

All one has to do is to bleed some of the energy off by forcing the weights towards the centre on the left hand side. This energy increases the speed of the weights spreads them out as shown in the diagram below and this gives the couple that drives the wheel.



Speeding up is equivalent to insulation as I pointed out in a previous post so there is our adiabatic leg.

You can see intuitively just looking at the diagram that it will work. Two weights going faster had a lower mass density over the length of travel than three weights going slower.
So two weights going faster is equivalent to three weights weighing less going slower.

No wonder Bessler was worried. Who wouldn't be?

I think I had better leave members to chew on this one while I go and make myself a strong cup of tea. 8-)

[greendoor]

The rising weights certainly have to move faster - otherwise this overbalanced situation would not remain for very long. This reminds me of the classic spinning ice skater example used to demonstrate the conservation of angular momentum (pull your hands in to your chest, and your speed of rotation increases). However, somebody recently pointed out that the human skater example is hopelessly flawed, because muscle power is exerted to bring the arms in towards the body against the (imaginary) centrifugal force.

AFAIK - even Bessler needed an energy input to accelerate those rising weights. That's what we need to look for first.

[primemignonite]

Fletcher, you said "I'd really like someone to get to the
bottom of this & show the physics that leads to excess
energy ? . . ."

Well, I guess it's just going to be another waiting game
that we'll all have to endure.

Also, somewhere on the Abeling thread is a complete
English translation of the patent's text. I will have to go
through some pages to find it again, not having book
marked it, darn it.

The reason is that am still confused as to the purpose
for the gearing in the guide slots. Is this to produce spin
on the weights, or, to just keep them parallel in their tracks?
Figure 6, as I recall.

You also allowed, Fletcher, ". . . - but most of us know
that when you apply a force to accelerate something you
get an counter productive effect robbing the flywheel of
momentum [equal & opposite reactions no less] - . . .?

Of course this is so, that is, except in two cases, one being
if the vector of force is precisely parallel with the axis of rotation,
and the second, and more important, being if said vector is
precisely toward or away from the center of rotation perpen-
dicularly.

I speculated that this would be case, and as to the second,
confirmed it physically. If the structure be rigid and with good
bearings, then it serves as an 'inertial reference' going to
ground.

The center can be pushed against by something on the wheel
'till the cows come home, and no displacement of the wheel
itself will result.

I assume you already know this, but did not say it for brevity's sake.

James

[Grimer]

@ greendoor

The rising weights certainly have to move faster - otherwise this overbalanced situation would not remain for very long. This reminds me of the classic spinning ice skater example used to demonstrate the conservation of angular momentum (pull your hands in to your chest, and your speed of rotation increases). However, somebody recently pointed out that the human skater example is hopelessly flawed, because muscle power is exerted to bring the arms in towards the body against the (imaginary) centrifugal force.

AFAIK - even Bessler needed an energy input to accelerate those rising weights. That's what we need to look for first.

The energy input comes from the weights which would otherwise go round the left hand circumference coming up against a barrier and being forced to go round a smaller circle.

Imagine that someone suddenly plonked down a curved wall in the path of the skaters outstretched arm. The skater would not need to use any energy to pull her arm in. It would be forced in. The wall being infinitely stiff for all practical purposed would not do any work. To do work a force has to move through a distance and the force the wall exerts is not moving through a distance. The upward force the floor is exerting on your feet is not moving through a distance either and is not doing work.

Of course one could take the view that gravity pushes you down a tiny bit one nanosecond and the floor pushes you back the next nanosecond.

Taking this view then both the gravity and the floor are taking it in turns to do work but because the work done by both is equal, and in opposite directions, you don't fall though the floor or rise up like a rocket.

But thanks for trying. Obviously one needs to ferret out any possible loophole before take the trouble and expense to replicate the Bessler wheel.

[in fact the skater doesn't do any work. The skater has work done on her by the Beta-atmosphere - but that is a whole new ballgame which we don't need to go into here. ;-) ]

[Grimer]

...
I speculated that this would be case, and as to the second,
confirmed it physically. If the structure be rigid and with good
bearings, then it serves as an 'inertial reference' going to
ground.

The center can be pushed against by something on the wheel
'till the cows come home, and no displacement of the wheel
itself will result.
...

Full marks, that man.

Home, James and don't spare the horses.

(sorry - you must have heard that hundreds of times - but I couldn't resist it ;-) )

[path_finder]

Dear all,

My contribution on the Sjack Abelin design debate:

1. If it really works, I'm a little bit surprised to see the inactivity of his prospects (making the difference with investors). We can ask ourself why the highly reputated companies he is referring, are just waiting. The answer could be: the verification experiments for validation of the contract were not enough successful to confirm the validity of the industrial process.

2. The examination of the patent shows a description of a single physical principe (even if a valid concept), but a very suspicious level of faisability of the principe itself. The mechanism described for his wheel seems to be just an complementary argument for the deposit, with the idea that nobody will never take any effort in view to make the replicat nor verify the validity of the included drawings. if we accept well the described principe, there are a lot of mechanisms much more simple and not so complex, allowing the setup of this principe. In my opinion, he did found a principe, but he is still searching the way to setup it.

3. By the way this patent could be sorted in this class of patents with the only purpose to be present the day where the final design will be discovered. We know a lot of these patents not really useful but allowing the bearer to claim an eventual anteriority.
Regarding his request for 2006 as date of discovery, this has no sense: the rights start at the date of the patent attribution. Why this care for a previous date? One explication could be a problem with the validity of his patent itself (anteriority of another patent) wich can explain also the timidity of his partners.

4. If you are the inventor of any gravitic engine what is the best strategy? To ring first at the door of the electricity power local company?
In any case the national DoD will apply his priority rights. Nothing has been reported on this subject on the Web data (you must have an official authorization for market your patent, I knew that twice). In addition if your design really works, the best royalties will come from the high level applications, not from the domestic Kwatt at 50% of reduction, this is a pure joke even if you know that the dutches have the reputation to be moneyscrappers.

5. It's not necessary to search into the Sterling motor theory nor in the Carnot diagram the solution of the Bessler's design.
The combination of a clever mechanism associated with the rotating energy is sufficient.
Any deviation is an attempt to disturb the people from the successful way.

[Grimer]

The wall, or the long curved arm, can for practical purposes, be taken as infinitely rigid, Therefor as the cylindrical weight or its axle comes into contact with the wall all the energy is transformed into rotational (analog of temperature) or translational energy (analog of pressure). Presumably by skillful design one can ensure that a substantial fraction ends up increasing the up-speed of the weights compared with the down-speed on the right hand side and so reducing the mass density on the left hand side.

We can be pretty certain that Bessler had what he claimed (or we wouldn't be here).

And we have no reason to believe that Sjack is deluded or a fraud, other than the important consequences of his claim.

Therefore we do have reason to think this is the solution until there is evidence to the contrary.

[pstroud]

1. If it really works, I'm a little bit surprised to see the inactivity of his prospects (making the difference with investors). We can ask ourself why the highly reputated companies he is referring, are just waiting. The answer could be: the verification experiments for validation of the contract were not enough successful to confirm the validity of the industrial process.

Path_finder,
Abeling's website indicates that they are not waiting and there is activity to move forward. See the quote below:

The construction of the first Weight Power Plant is expected in May 2009.
The location for the construction of the first Weight Power Plant is probably going to be the province of Groningen, the Netherlands.

Preston

[path_finder]

Dear pstroud,
They hope the plant will be perhaps built in the Groeningen provinz in Mai 2009?
How long it takes to build a power plant? We are in avril and they don't know yet where a plant will be build in Mai?
I'm a little bit confused.

If a new plant would be built shortly in Groeningen, for sure it will be publicly announced.
http://www.nuon.com/company/Innovative- ... on-magnum/
http://www.nisnews.nl/dossiers/royal_ho ... 97_424.htm

[Grimer]

@ path_finder

>My contribution on the Sjack Abelin design debate:
> snip
> Any deviation is an attempt to disturb the people from the successful way.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMRqFEB8sTk ....

Cheers,

Frank

[Michael]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRa9V4JF ... re=related

[daxwc]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G06hJ7Vx ... re=related