Using Leverage (Mt 25)

[Bessler_Supporter]

There was a time I was willing to work with rlortie. In the thread being referenced, he did point out that he works with people who expect to be compensated.
This could be why his only discussion of Mt 25 went as far as the Keel Effect. So much for discussing engineering.
This pic shows how using leverage could allow for such a design to work. And one of Bessler's clues is something about weights coming together. In Mt 25, they do. This is what Ralph calls the Keel Effect.
The problem is, only one weight resting at the bottom would be lifted.
So it is okay if he and his friend Alan do not like me. That would be ebcause I have not supported work which was not open to review by other members of the forum.

[justsomeone]

Jim, You have been doing pretty good lately and I have enjoyed reading your posts. Please don't go back to your old ways..... Just talk wheels.
Quit dragging other members into your posts for a fight. MT 25 is quite interesting to me also and certainly deserves a close look. I don't believe the " keel effect " refers to the weights coming together but refers to a wheel having more weight on the lower half of the wheel, during rotation, then on the top just like a weeble.

[Bessler_Supporter]

Jim, You have been doing pretty good lately and I have enjoyed reading your posts. Please don't go back to your old ways..... Just talk wheels.
Quit dragging other members into your posts for a fight. MT 25 is quite interesting to me also and certainly deserves a close look. I don't believe the " keel effect " refers to the weights coming together but refers to a wheel having more weight on the lower half of the wheel, during rotation, then on the top just like a weeble.

I guess things are a matter of perspective.
Unfortunately, until I can incorporate the weight retraction I highlighted in Mt 25, doubt I'll be able to get my (Bessler's) wheel working. One of the reason for this is if it is pulled from the left side of the hub, it will be swinging against the wheel generating force. If it is lifted on the right side of the wheel (which I've been trying), then it creates an under or negative balance. It is something I have known is in the math.
My problem is that I don't have a drill press or access to round stock of steel. The why for this is I could secure two dumbell type weights and have them roll over the line that would lift them. And with steel, I could use a grinder and make a channel. Either way, it would've let me try it the way I believe Bessler used.
With what I outlined about Mt 25, it shows a different way to do a stress analysis. What happens is the weights on the lever become lighter.
The shift of the weights that are attached to the fixed arms need to be calculated from where they are applying force (swinging from), not their physical position.
With the way Mt 25 is drawn, it could be one heavy weight being over balanced from 45º after top center to 135 º that is the motive force.
Not sure how many people in here find math interesting. Not sure if it would be worth while to do if people don't understand it.
After all, don't know when I will be getting back to work or try something on other than a minimalist budget. Of course, did help to come up with a cost effective build method.
Justsomeone, I'm not sure how many people realize it, but the math behind the enginnering can be complex. If taken slowly, then it could be better understood and more people might find the engineering interesting. I think for the most part they find Bessler interesting. And that's okay.
There are also 2 other wheels (drawings) that look like they could work. They are Mt's 20 & 34. Might be some others, haven't taken the time to go over them better.
Mt 34 is 6 weighted and reversible. Mt 20 has the weight/lever rotate counter clockwise while the wheel rotates clockwise. It uses a ratchet type mechanism. This allows the weight/lever to hang from it's fulcrum while moving upward. After top center, the long lever causes it to swing (counter clockwise rotation) out.
Sorry about writing the book but sometimes trying to discuss specific reasons why Bessler's wheels could work seems to get lost.
With Mt 34, the levers both drop down rotating all weights toward the top. one of the tricks is that neither lever drops lower than the axle of the wheel (perpendicular in reality).

[justsomeone]

Sorry B.S. but the math is over my head. I do enjoy looking at different

wheels and figuring out where the weight and forces are applied in

relation to the axle as it would turn. I have a simple approach to my

designs. I ask myself what path I want the weights to take and how do I

make them take that path. Simple huh?