Hello new here

[Irish Oracle]

Best of luck Irish Oracle and thanks for sharing your confidence and enthusiasm

Thanks, I just like to have others who are interested in a solution join in.

No wheel works until it works. Simple, obvious and a lesson we have all learnt numerous times.

If i stand in front of u and describe the inner workings of the wheel it would dawn on u in 5 minutes that i am right lol. But I agree so I will make 1 first so non can say Iam wrong.

[DrWhat]

I hope and wish you to be right. I really do.

[greendoor]

If i stand in front of u and describe the inner workings of the wheel it would dawn on u in 5 minutes that i am right lol. ee so I will make 1 first so non can say Iam wrong.

To be honest, I really think that if Bessler himself emerged from his grave and demonstrated the naked spinning wheel, and presented a hard bound copy of his finished book - 99% of the people here would not believe.

The mathematicians of Bessler's day did not believe, and accused him of fraud. Even if they could have seen through the covering - i'm sure they would be looking for the hidden strings.

The whole doctrine of CoE has been enshrined since the 1800's, and far too much has been invested in it for academics to even contemplate changing their thought patterns. Bessler luckily didn't have to deal with that so much - if he had a modern college education i'm sure he would never have invented that wheel.

Balance of probability - there is probably some fatal flaw with your design, and people here will be able to point this out and save you some time and cash.

Personally, i'm convinced Bessler was true, and that gravity can be a source of free energy. I'm in a similar position of having a design in mind that i'm very confident will work. I'm not even going to attempt to explain it, because this is a very tough crowd. I attempt to endorse some working principles that have been released by other forum members, and I think they are 100% correct and experimentally provable. But the resistance to these basic ideas, which I find very exciting, basically fall on deaf ears. Very interestingly, I don't get much logical refutation - which suggests to me that they can't understand or fault it. This frustrates me somewhat, so i'm left to assume that i'm being frozen out and ignored by certain people because their agenda is to pervert this forum. (Or maybe this whole forum is a social engineering device to ensure that the Wheel is never built, and that those who get close to the secret are dealt with ...

Nobody like a conspiracy theory. But what am I supposed to assume? There have been numerous people here who suddenly announce that they have rediscovered the wheel, and then they may suggest they have been contacted and threatened, and then they dissappear. Patrick being the last one ... you wouldn't be a Patrick would you?

There are a few people here who have their own theories about how the wheel might have worked. These people pretty much can only see things their particular way. Other people here are totally skeptical, or totally convinced that gravity is not required, or have otherwise made up their mind and aren't likely to change.

Then there is outright fraud, and simple minded trolling. Probably not that much here, due to good moderation.

It's an interesting situation.

But seriously - you may as well throw you idea to the wolves - you will certainly learn some things by doing that.

Or just build the thing and quietly improve your life with it under the radar. A running wheel would outperform solar photovoltaic panels, so for a start you would be on British Petroleum's hit list. Doesn't the English Royal Family have interests in BP? They would never bump anyone off that threatened their interests would they? No worries then.

[Irish Oracle]

Hello Greendoor,



To be honest, I really think that if Bessler himself emerged from his grave and demonstrated the naked spinning wheel, and presented a hard bound copy of his finished book - 99% of the people here would not believe.

YES thats the problem, and if i show before i make a wheel all will say Iam wrong, but they will make a working wheel with my idea slightly changed and say they made it.

if he had a modern college education i'm sure he would never have invented that wheel

That is why there are no working wheels because looking at all designs around the world they suck. LOL.

Balance of probability - there is probably some fatal flaw with your design, and people here will be able to point this out and save you some time and cash

No flaws I have help they all see it works. Iam not alone in my work. So it will be shown in the end.

But seriously - you may as well throw you idea to the wolves - you will certainly learn some things by doing that.

No thanks, I will show a working wheel so non can say I dident have it first, thats all i want.


The mathematicians of Bessler's day did not believe, and accused him of fraud. Even if they could have seen through the covering - i'm sure they would be looking for the hidden strings.

The whole doctrine of CoE has been enshrined since the 1800's, and far too much has been invested in it for academics to even contemplate changing their thought patterns


I cant wait to see the look on their faces, boy am i going to have some fun.

[ovyyus]

The mathematicians of Bessler's day did not believe, and accused him of fraud...

Greendoor, Leibniz never called Bessler a fraud. Neither did s'Gravesande. Many others who saw Bessler's wheel appeared likewise convinced that he had discovered something significant.

How will you ever get facts straight while refusing to read history in favour of promoting unbalanced views and silly conspiracy stories? I guess it's just easier making things up to suit your own belief.

Believing without understanding is not science. Little wonder you don't like the scientific method.

[Michael]

Bessler was quite proud of his education Greendoor. And he had a bit to say about some detractors who didn't have as much education as he did.

[LustInBlack]

I know the future.. This is following the exact and same usual pattern!

You have 0.0001% chance of announcing a genuine success, best of luck!

I, myself, had, let's see, from the beginning of that research, about 200 ideas and these were to me 100% of the time, the solution to Bessler's Wheel.....

But hey, let's go, I want to see the look on my face when you show this to us..

[georgexbailey]

Irish Oracle,

Forgive us for our cynical nature. I for one have only been pursuing this objective for about 15 months. It is a strange obsession. First, curiosity. Next, I solved it. I was sure. I had only learned and read about Bessler for a week and I absolutely, 100% knew I had the answer. My wife was walking around the house smiling since we were soon to be rich and famous. But, after a week of building I found quickly that what goes up will always go down.

Now I approach all ideas from a different perspective. I use software to simulate different aspects but I do not try to design my whole wheel in it. I just use it to place weights on a wheel in various positions and then I note the direction the wheel spins. This has saved me a ton of time in building real world models. To be honest, I still have a wheel in my garage but I have not touched it in 6 months. I still solve the wheel in my mind several times a week. But then I fire up the software and find that it does not work. I have even created several wheel that work within the software but it is just a software error. It is maddening but on 3 different occasions I have completely fooled myself into thinking I solved the riddle...only to find that I had a setting wrong in the software.

So where am I? Well, I definitely feel the human race has not figured out very much. Bessler's wheel may indeed be real. But, then again, there are things that are just impossible. I don't know but I seem to believe and I keep trying.

You are alluding to 3d, 4d, etc trying to get us to think out of the box. Good luck. I have thought of every imaginable 3d scenario that my little brain can think of. IF I had to guess, I would say that I have tried 250 different designs on paper and on simulation software, 2d, 3d, you name it and I've probably tried something similar. Probably more than Bessler. And they all come to the same result.

Ironically, after reading your messages over the past few days, as I drove to work today I came up with a 3d design that I thought would work. From 8:00 to 9:00am this morning I modeled portions of it in software and at first it showed that it would work 100%. You know what? I didn't even get a butterfly in my stomach. After carefully examination and a re-evaluation of the math, I found my mistake. Not missing a beat, I went back to work.

Bessler says, the weights are always seeking... More weights on one side than the other... working in sets of 2... I can't find the answer. Do you have it?

GB

[greendoor]

The mathematicians of Bessler's day did not believe, and accused him of fraud...

Greendoor, Leibniz never called Bessler a fraud. Neither did s'Gravesande. Many others who saw Bessler's wheel appeared likewise convinced that he had discovered something significant.

How will you ever get facts straight while refusing to read history in favour of promoting unbalanced views and silly conspiracy stories? I guess it's just easier making things up to suit your own belief.

Believing without understanding is not science. Little wonder you don't like the scientific method.

Stating the Ovyyus again. I never said that ALL mathematicians of Bessler's day called him a fraud. We can be grateful that Gravesande was curious enough to at least go and have a look for himself - even if he did upset Bessler and cause him to smash up his wheel in a little tanty.

But history tells us that most conservative scientists of the day, and ever since, have called Bessler a fraud and denied the possibility of PM.

You accuse me of not liking the scientific method, and this I most strenuously deny. The very reason I am disappointed with modern ' science' is that it flagrantly ignores the scientific method in favor of short term profit. The scientific method begins with Observation. Then Theorising, then Experimenting, then Testing, etc, etc.

Modern science, largely, is based on the profit motive. The desired outcome is decided ahead of time, the funds are spent, and the results damn well better match the budgeted expectation. Otherwise they are ignored. Results are often falsified for profit or glory. Many of the famous experiments of physics are surrounded with tales of greed and falsification, and there is genuine reason to doubt many of the theories that are currently present as fact.

In 200 years, people will look back on our state of knowledge and laugh at us. Why not enjoy the joke now?

What do the words "drug trials" suggest to you? True science, or short-sighted greed mongering? The so called 'Health' Industry (which should be called the Death & Disease Trade) is about the worst low-life scum you could find on the planet. But the Energy industry isn't far behind in using the facade of 'science' to rort the planet.

Tesla's experience is a fairly good public example of how 'science' really works. Tesla was, imo, a true scientist - but he went beyond the desires of the greed mongerers and had to be suppressed. History repeats, ad nauseum.

But that's just my silly beliefs. You can think what you want. How's that working out for you?

[greendoor]

Bessler was quite proud of his education Greendoor. And he had a bit to say about some detractors who didn't have as much education as he did.

I never said Bessler was un-educated. It's accepted that for his day he was extremely skilled and knowledgeable. A regular Polymath or Renaissance Man. Homo universalis if you will.

What I said was: "if he had a modern college education i'm sure he would never have invented that wheel. "

Modern education has become so complex and specialised that there is no room for Polymaths. There is hardly any room left for understanding. This is a Knowledge economy. Cram those facts into your brains - no time to verify them for ourselves; accept what the Man says or die.

I do not expect an academic to solve the Bessler puzzle. I expect some lunatic fringe tradesman will beat them to it. Let's just hope he has enough brains not to trust the establishment, for his own personal safety, and to allow the gift of free power to the peasants.

[greendoor]

Believing without understanding is not science. Little wonder you don't like the scientific method.

Ovyyus - you seem to have a problem with this word "believe". Faith or Belief are commonly misunderstood words. For some people (usually those who have a 100% Faith & Belief in "Science"), other people's Faith or Belief (that differ from their own) are evidence of people being suckered into impossible stupid deceptions that aren't based on facts or reality.

Very few people - even the deeply religious - genuinely have faith in things for no good reason. Just because you can't see the reason, doesn't mean they don't have good reason or logic for their belief.

Some of the most reasonable/logical/scientific brains have believed in the existance of God. When you ponder the deepest issues of life & the universe, practically any theory seems far out and unreasonable. The concept of omnipresent, omnicscient, omnipotent Mind being responsible for all observed effects is an extremely valid point of view that is worthy of consideration. It's extremely naive, small-minded & illogical to rule it out without some serious thought about the realistic alternatives.

But I digress. I didn't mean to dig that deep. Just to challenge you negative association with the word "Belief".

Humans can't stop believing. When they say they "don't believe" something, they are really saying that they beleive something else. And that belief can be challenged by anyone who chooses to challenge it.

Most of us are products of conditioning. A lie told often enough becomes truth (Lennon or Goebbels - who really knows, because the principles of deception are as old as mankind).

Science is deeply rooted in belief. You can't deny it. It is no better or worse than religion in that regard. It's just humans doing what human do - for better or worse. Sometimes a scientist gets things right, sometimes religion gets things right. If the punters are happy, and not hurting anyone else, who is to define what is "right" anyway?

But getting back to Bessler wheel building.

Currently "science" believes that PM is 100% impossible. This negative belief kills all serious research into the possibility, leaving it to the nutters.

A negative belief - or a belief that something is impossible - is still a belief. And it becomes reality for the believer.

In order to build a running Bessler wheel, Bessler wheel had to first believe that it was possible. A modern education would have killed off that belief, Bessler would have not even dared to dream, and this would have reinforced the validity of this particular belief.

Ovyyus - seriously, you need to accept that "belief" is:

A/ not optional - we all believe something and
B/ what we choose to belief can and does affect reality

Belief can open doors, or close them.
Belief can be the problem, or the solution.

A correct understanding of the power of Faith or Belief is not something that only feeble minded dimwits can fall for. It is a powerful tool for people with imagination. A scary powerful tool that can be abused by bad people too.

[ovyyus]

...The very reason I am disappointed with modern ' science' is that it flagrantly ignores the scientific method in favor of short term profit...

I think you might be confusing science with business? Two very different professions.

[greendoor]

Science is funded by business. It is never unbiased. Would you trust a McDonalds Nutritionist?

[ovyyus]

Science is deeply rooted in belief. You can't deny it. It is no better or worse than religion in that regard...

I think that's a fair comment. Isn't it interesting how belief and faith can lead to a method of investigation which does not require belief and faith. Perhaps the point is to differentiate between what is physics and what is us?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method

Scientific method refers to a body of techniques for investigating phenomena, acquiring new knowledge, or correcting and integrating previous knowledge. To be termed scientific, a method of inquiry must be based on gathering observable, empirical and measurable evidence subject to specific principles of reasoning. A scientific method consists of the collection of data through observation and experimentation, and the formulation and testing of hypotheses.

There's no mention of any requirement to believe anything.

[ovyyus]

Science is funded by business. It is never unbiased. Would you trust a McDonalds Nutritionist?

Not all science is funded by business just like not all business is driven by science. Therefore, your statement seems biased.