"Und verstehen sie immer nicht?": An idea for explaining the MT137...

[path_finder]

I'm back in Bangui(RCA) where Internet is not very easy.

There are a lot of electric power suppressions for several hours.

When the power comes back on, we have a lot of under and overvoltages.

And this is now the storm season with a lot of lightnings.

The rate is very poor (yesterday 447Ko in 24mn).

Anyway, I tried to send this animation 'mt137e.gif' hoping do not be cancelled wildly during the problematic sessions.

By the way don't be surprised by my silence for the next two weeks.



It was an previous attempt to discover the secret of the MT137 clue.

May be what Bessler tried to indicate, may be not.

At that time I hoped to find an interesting mechanism for a possible prime-mover.

Recently reviewing some old files, I decided to revisitate these old studies.

One question is the number of rods (4, 5 like here, or more?)

In the first animation 'mt137e.gif' there are FIVE rods, wich is apparently the maximum allowed (we must let free a sweep area).

All step of the motion are active, wich seems a little bit strange (five is not an even number of rods).

The only retainable clue is the noise of the shocks on the inner rim, interesting but not sufficient.

An deep analysis of the COG shows an permanent unbalance on the left side, as shown in the 'mt137f.gif' animation.

But this is not particularly usefull because inverted with the direction of the rotation.

Perhaps one person here, more clever than me, can find the correct use for this very simple design.

Any idea?

[Bessler_Supporter]

Path_finder,
I like your idea.
If taken one movement at a time,
the number of rods might show itself.

Jim

[path_finder]

The design using FOUR rods seems to be more interesting.
With four rods there are several possibilities for disposing the rods.
The most interesting could be this one (animation 'mt137g.gif' shown below).
The shocks are not distributed with regularity (grey-red-orange-blue-5-grey-red-orange-blue-5, where 5 is empty).
This can be the explanation for a controversial subject regarding the salt/stone mills aside the wheel (see the numerous threads about this point).
I cannot find any pertinent use for this design.
Any idea?

[path_finder]

If I did not found any use for the sweeping rods in the previous animation, nevertheless I found an interesting design based on the same principle.
It is shown in the next animation 'poly86.gif' below, very slow for a better understanding.
The original idea was coming from the analysis of the 'flowerbowl'.
An expert in WorkingModel2D simulation software will verify for sure...
There are a lot of other designs able to improve this very simple one.

[LustInBlack]

Path, interesting ideas, the hexa one reminds me of some mechs I've seen here..

Btw, what software are you using to create those animated gifs!?
Seems to me you have a good software to rotate and play with geometrics..

[DrWhat]

Path finder, could you add some small sliding weights at the top (but all the way around) the red ring to tip it over clockwise at the top?

Maybe the leverage of the lighter smaller weights could be an advantage.

Or something like that.

Below: more of my early ideas. Sliding weights in chambers...

Doesn't accomplish much as is :-(

[path_finder]

The same principle but with 10 (ten) items.

This animation shows the motion of straight rods falling insise a drum.
The lockers/unlockers at both end of each rod are not represented.
On a practical point of view they are very easy to implement: just some simple small tubes sliding on the rod and with a curse limited by a bumper.
If the inner rim is supplied with teeth or nails, the rods will not slide.
This additional parts are needed in view to lock the down end of the rod and attach it to the inner rim of the drum.
But when arrived at the 11:00 position this locker must disapear. The sliding down is done by the gravity, unlocking the rod and allowing the fall.
This point was just an advice for the building.
What is much more interesting is what we can do with this such as assembly.
With some straight rods we can see clearly on the animation the form of the envelop (like a crayfish tail).
Note that form and it's position are stable within the rotation of the wheel, and only dependent of the outer circonference (no link at all with the axle, well known question)
But what can be obtained if the rods are curved?

[ruggerodk]

If the rods are curved?

They will change/shift between up and down curvature on every fall...;-D

ruggero ;-)

[beapilot]

Hi,

According to the weight on one side compare to the other, I do not see it spinning. If the weight is greater on one side that is more like the up side, it will not spin. You need the weight to be less. The rods act like a lever with the fulcrum on one end. The weight is mostly on the up side and very little on the down side.

Although, thank you for sharing your ideas.

Joshua

[path_finder]

Dear Ruggero,
Your are right if the rods are some tubes.
But if they are some curved planks, they can't rotate like you say.
Remember on the ABtoys drawings in MT138, one part is wide (not a single line).
In that case the envelop can have a more specific shape, much more usefull...

Dear Joshua,
I never said that design was a prime-mover.
Everybody knows that a single wheel will never rotate alone (see the numerous threads about)
It is just a particular mechanism, acting in any rotating wheel, in view to obtain the lift of the weights between 4:00 and 6:00 (see please the former topics)..