www.gravitywheel.com has been updated

[dradford]

I've posted a short video of the mechanism moving. There is a link to it at the bottom of the page at
http://www.gravitywheel.com/html/bessle ... nisms.html

Or you can use the direct link to youtube at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deA6KbNZft0


JC

Thanks for the video, but surely it must have taken you a hell of a long time to produce that model? You could have done it on a computer in about an hour.

(I realise we are not allowed to talk common sense here, and discuss BETTER ways of finding the solution...)

[triplock]

Light the blue touch paper and whooosh !!!!!!!!!! LOL

Bet you wish you'd kept it all to yourself now John. Gotta love yer though. Eccentricities & Innovation, It's what makes England great ;-)

Chris

[John Collins]

Thanks Chris, I wish it were to be an Englishman did succeed in this quest.

I do understand your point dradford but I think that you do not understand the enjoyment and the way the creative juices are stimulated by playing with a mechanism and seeing what variations you can do make it act differently. Even the mechanisms you have seen in the video can react completely differently with the tiniest adjustment either in the position of the pivots fixed to the wheel, the placing of the pivots on the levers or the angles they start or finish at and how much one moves relative to the other dependent on the positions chosen. There is only one way to find out and that is by building. You cannot think of all the possibilities just with your mind and simulation software. Any way that is my experience dradford, and I know I'm not the only one who feels this way

[justsomeone]

From John's site:

) "If one weight is giving an upward impetus, another one, at the same time, is giving an equal downward one." Just as mine do.


This has been discussed here. Wasn't Bessler refereing to Wagner's unworkable wheel? If so.... Yes it fits your design perfectly. :)

[justsomeone]

John, How much of your new book revolves around this theory of yours?

[bluesgtr44]

Just getting this info today. A lot to catch up on! Saw the video and was slightly disappointed and that may be because I haven't really digested it yet. I don't think this can revolve very quickly at all if in fact it does maintain a rotation....CF will own this mechanism under 10 RPM's for the most part....just an opinion. Oh well, let me get back to some minor yard work and then I'll get a bit deeper into this. Thanks for putting it out there, John.


Steve

[John Collins]

None of it justsomeone. It is just the historical facts. Thirteen years have passed since I wrote my first biography of Bessler and I have learned a lot more about him in the intervening years. I also need to rewrite it in a more readable style.

I am planning to write a book about Bessler's code one day but I need to finish my research into the Apologia codes first.

Of course I might be persuaded to include something about my theory but there would be little point unless it had been successfully developed in a working device.

You might be right about the quote being from Wagner, I'll have to check it out.

JC

[Tarsier79]

Gday JC,

Just watched your video, and due to the length of the long lever, I think your rotating weight could be increased.

[Ealadha]

From John's site:

) "If one weight is giving an upward impetus, another one, at the same time, is giving an equal downward one." Just as mine do.


This has been discussed here. Wasn't Bessler refereing to Wagner's unworkable wheel? If so.... Yes it fits your design perfectly. :)

I glad i am reading this thread , because i was about to alter the mechanism i have from that quote on JC s site , on the mechanism i have weights are always falling on the wheel , if i alter it to that quote , they wont be always falling .

Did'nt bessler say weights were always falling on his wheel ?

[wheelrite]

I'm not sure a computer software simulation would necessarily 'prove' a working wheel, although no expert it begs questions that affect its certainty or reliability, i.e the code is written by a programmer and has he hard coded in parameters or data that is limited in some way because of perceived wisdom, or the coding does not allow for a needed type of novelty or presently undiscovered or not understood behavior, I could go on, but with these uncertainties I personally would use it as a 'pointer' not a 'prover'.
Jon

[wheelrite]

Some thoughts. Springs were admitted by Bessler (tho not simple 'wind up') and reportedly heard by witnesses, we need to employ them. John comment the 'action' is to slow and spring loading of some fashion may help, not sure how it would be achieved. Maybe the other mechs are linked (cord?) and hold back the tension until ? o'clock? Or maybe there in tension but never locked (conversely the reported noise sounding like cocking implying a sear/catch, he even uses 'sear' in his poem). If not locked at all the springing may cause oscillation between two systems ? with the kick in one direction adding to the lever speed? Questions questions, I am still wondering about the weight of the weights(respectively) and Besslers reported hiding of them (theatrics? misdirection?). Also the report of 'one beam turned the wheel barely/slowly' or something along those lines, maybe a beam with one of Johns arrangements on each end?
Loads of food for thought generated John.
Regards
Jon

[Reticon]

I'm still looking, but I only really see height for width now in the youtube video. Is the pumping at the end of the stroke? Do you hope that the outer mass will have its weight thrown around the pivot in the direction of rotation? I'm seeing the actual effect on the pivot itself and that contrary to the rotation.

Thanks again for this John. I for one will buy your book (assuming it will be reasonably priced) just because you had the guts to put this out here for all to see. Proving your sanity.

Finally, I couldn't help but notice the surrounding mechanisms seem to be arranged quite differently than the one you demonstrate? Are you tinkering or is this just one of several different things you see happening?

[John Collins]

Yes Reticon they are different arrangements of mechanisms. I use two, sometimes three wheels at at time. In this case the wheel with the five similar mechanisms is being altered so I used an older one which still had one of the first mechanisms of the kind I have shown, on it.

I find that if I have arrived at the arrangement of a mechanism that seems to work close to my desired design, I leave it alone and replicate it on another wheel and then make minute adjustments to the placing of the pivots to see if I can better it, and because with so many empty holes in the back board of the wheel it is sometimes difficult to know where the original arrangement of the mechanism was and I am afraid, as I have done in the past, that I might not be able to produce the same arrangment again..

When you have a range of levers to place, it really does make a huge difference to the outcome where you place things on the wheel .

Sometimes I think I've copied it exactly and yet I find that the range of movement has altered and I have to make more small adjustments to bring it to the same outcome as the first one.

I forgot to respond to the first question:-

I'm still looking, but I only really see height for width now in the youtube video. Is the pumping at the end of the stroke? Do you hope that the outer mass will have its weight thrown around the pivot in the direction of rotation? I'm seeing the actual effect on the pivot itself and that contrary to the rotation.

OK, don't forget we are not looking for height and width primarily but for pumping by shortening the primary lever with its weight at the six o'clock position. As in kiiking the stand up movement has to take place at or just after six o'clock and it has to be as quick as possible. How far the upwards action has to be, is unknown but I don't think it has to be much because if you consider the Kiiking stand up action it is a relatively small distance in comparison with the length of the pendulum/swing rods.

As I said on my web site, the other upwards action can take place relatively slowly between twelve o'clock and three.

I should add that I am working on a different method of lifting the primary weight but I have reasons for thinking that the current method is one of the ones Bessler used. I'll post something about that later.

PS I've just seen patfinder's drawing and that is precisely what I'm working on at the moment - thanks :-)

JC

[path_finder]

Dear John,

the mechanisms you have seen in the video can react completely differently with the tiniest adjustment

It is exactly here the most important point.
The mechanisms where the efficiency is dependent from a 1/10th of millimeter within one part, must be rejected because it is the sign of an evident lack of torque
Only the designs with a consistent torque have a little opportunity to be successful, at the minimum for counteracting the friction losses.
In addition there is no reason (if the start has been laborious) why the mechanism could be more efficient few seconds later.
I see only one case of this slow start could be not disconvenient: the clock. On a certain point of view, your design is similar with some clock escapement.

I still continue to believe in the 'parametric pendulum' solution (one of several possibilities).
But I prefer for the moment to explore further some other more universal solutions based on the eccentricity.
If it can be useful, my suggestion for implementing a parametric pendulum is given in the drawing hereafter.
The fan of Bessler will recognize the famous 'A with legs' frame, wich is IMHO an important and more recognized clue than the pentagram, and can be eventually combined with the famous scissor.

In any case, many thanks again for sharing your ideas.
I'm not surprised by some answers from few systematical negationists: even with an legal officially stamped attestation they will continue to claim for a fraud.
These persons are the same unable to share anything neither to publish any fruitful design nor to build any test unit.
So far don't care so much of such as negative comments.

[jimmyjj]

The sooner we share our ideas the sooner they can be shot too pieces and we can come up with new ones. Thanks for finally sharing John now you can come up with something new:).My ideas are so few these days, i currently have a vague notion of a design: its in three sections one spins one way, one the other and the middle is balanced feeding each side. All the best... Like the A's 'finder:)