Gravity is not a conservative force.

[Aman]

Let people laugh at me,I laugh at them,but you proved me that Path of the weight determine the output.
Simply because ,you need more energy for larger displacement and less energy for smaller displacement.If I have a straight path and a curved path with same height,the length of Curved path is more than length of straight path.
If you need same energy to displace a larger path compared to that of smaller then it is a violation of Law of conservation of energy.

May be speaking if Non-Conservative force may be Correct but speaking of COP>1 is incorrect and wrong.

[Aman]

Let people laugh at me,I laugh at them,but you proved me that Path of the weight determine the output.
Simply because ,you need more energy for larger displacement and less energy for smaller displacement.If I have a straight path and a curved path with same height,the length of Curved path is more than length of straight path.
If you need same energy to displace a larger path compared to that of smaller then it is a violation of Law of conservation of energy.

May be speaking of Non-Conservative force may be Correct but speaking of COP>1 is incorrect.

[Tarsier79]

but you proved me that Path of the weight determine the output.

Where did you get that proof? Everything I have done testing gravity says the opposite. It is the height of the weight, not its path that provides its potential energy.

I recommend you do some research on the Brachistochrone curve.

[Ken]

Where did you get that proof? Everything I have done testing gravity says the opposite. It is the height of the weight, not its path that provides its potential energy.

Dropping an apple on your head 200 times, won't prove anything, except stuff falls down.

[murilo]

murilo,
like your design, reminds me of one that used floats and a 'u' tube with a watertight gate at the bottom that did work for a while.

Just a thought, rather than a complicated locking system to keep the spacing on the upside, just have another chain and sprockets with the ratio the same as the ratio of the downside links to the upside on the same shafts as you already have.

I really can't see any problems with your design , but then I have three discarded machines in the shed, and a 4th almost ready to test;)

JuBragg,
thanx for your appreciation! I'm glad you could REACH to my conception.

You see, the design generally I send is a kind of simple diagram. With the evolution of the principle, thousands of shapes will come.

One of them will be the connection of under wheel to parallel sprockets set to transform high torque to higher speed, p.e., ratios of 10:1 instead the example with 2:1.

Pls, observe that the device needs deal to 2 compensatory velocities and the wheel with hooks is a good way to get both.

Best!
M

[Dwylbtzle]

http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/pac/mp ... m#sect1111

well, both the us patent and trademark office,
and a patent attorney, told me this is what one should do--to put something into the public domain
they will determine if they think it's real--and then publish it
but if this really IS some (already known) suppressed technology
then this may be the exact thing i don't wanna do

how many people here are actually attempting to make working models?
i certainly have to admire the people who are actually building things in their workshops


has there ever been any discussion as to what happens when one of us figures out how bessler did it?

THAT won't be the end--that'd be just the beginning of the weirdness

[Aman]

@Dabler,what I know about patent may be little bit incorrect but according to what I learnt from our Value added Subject named "Intellectual Property Rights" in my third year of engineering in india,is that;a patent document is published in Official gazette for public Opposition and further legal processing ONLY if the idea is novel AND it is never and not at all published anywhere else.Not only this,any body can copy the invention and patent it before you if you disclose it without publication in patent office.
This is the only reasion I have given Analogous Example in my thread with a related Sketch on Flickr website,

http://www.besslerwheel.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5266

And not the actual Mechanism because I want to apply for patent.India is a very very Corrupted nation and there is no work without bribe and same is the case in our Indian Patent office.Our Indian Patent office processes Patents very slowly.
You can actually disclose your invention only if your doc is officially published in official Gazette.Such a publication does not grant you a patent but prevents anybody else to apply for same patent.Once your patent is published in patent Gazette,it is open for public opposition and the patent processing continues untill Court declares as "Patent Granted".A patent grant does not prevent others from using your invention for own persional use,BUT it does not allow anybody else to use your invention for Commecialistion without official Agreement with you for about 20 years.
Using for commercialisation by any one else without such agrement does not come under"Persional use" criterion.

Let me know Dwylbtzle and Jim_Mich,what they think?

[Dwylbtzle]

i think you are seeing the same thing i am--if i just blurt it out--someone can patent it themselves and SHELVE it--perhaps--so no-one can use it--and maybe they find me face down in the desert

i think that if i am right about my idea--or if anyone here figures out how bessler did it
the next steps must be done very carefully and very correctly

(also--be aware that a patent in one country only covers THAT country

i think i need to produce a working model--then put the idea into the public domain at the same time I LAUNCH it to the world in such a way that it is instantly VIRAL world-famous
and then belongs to everyone
and it's a done deal
it's LOOSE
and can't be stopped
i don't care if i don't make a dime off the idea
it would just really hurt if i died before i could convince anyone--like bessler did--i think he let the idea of OWNING it--and getting rich
stop him
that's notgonna happen to me

[Aman]

What you need to do it get it submitted into patent office(Initial stage).The examiner if accepts your idea for detailed examination, will publish it in official Gazette.Such a publication does not grants a patent immediately and allows you to discuss about it and disclose it anywhere.
May be such a discussion after publication will be basis for patent office to investigate the validity of your idea further.
There is no harm in getting your idea out before patent is recieved,but you have to take care that you disclose everything only after you get your document published in official Gazette for public opposition.

[Dwylbtzle]

i think you are exactly correct--and i came to that exact conclusion--the link i posted is how you do it s.i.r. section 11:11
i just don't trust the american government--because i can't see how i'm the first to think of this
i think there's a possibilty someone powerful doesn't want it known

i don't know--maybe i would have nothing to worry about
but then again....

[Aman]

It is not just about getting rich.
I will tell you about myself,I want some recognistaion as well as money to feed on bread and butter.

I don't mind people giving respect and use my invention free of cost,but there is a problem.
I am different from others,I cannot adjust myself in any other bussiness/job enviornment,I am not so rich that I keep on inventing and keeping on giving my inventions to the world without taking little reasonable profit.
Otherwise,such an inventor will die from poverty just Becasue the inventor do not have money and people simply useddais/her ideas without carreing about inventor and family's economic living sustainability.

I am not here to be the richest,if I get lot of profit,I will use most of money in my further research as well as for social Welfare donation.

If An inventor dies,his/her family can apply for patent for their feed on bread and butter.
An inventor can also license his invention to others.There are various (allmost 3 types) of licenses you can offer to others under official agrement for bussiness.If an inventor is not capable to invest,he/she can license others to manufacture it in return of profit.

[Aman]

(also--be aware that a patent in one country only covers THAT country

Also it is better that you apply for International patent under different conventions such as Berne convention.
An international patent will protect your ideas in many countries whereas a national patent will protect your ideas in only your nation.
I think India and US are under Berne Convention which means if you opt for patent under Berne convention,your invention will be patented in many countries under Berne Convention(WIPO-World Intelluctual Property Organisation).

http://www.wipo.int/about-wipo/en/

http://www.wipo.int/treaties/en/ip/bern ... wo001.html

Note that Patents are not given for Perpetual Motion Machines because PMM do not work.
But real Gravitational energy powered engines work because they are not Perpetual and hence patents can be given to Gravitational energy Powered Engines.People have a great stupid misunderstanding that Gravity engines are Perpetual Motion Machines.The words"Gravity wheel" themselves says that Gravity Wheels are wheel machines powered by gravitational energy and so there is a output for input.

[jim_mich]

SIR, is the proper method one should used to "just give it away".

Or you could go ahead with obtaining a patent and then sell licenses for a very small fee, say $10 per wheel. If the wheel goes viral, and millions are built, you would reap a substantial income.

[Aman]

Thanks a lot Jim_Mich.
And will this be an International patent category or national patent?
I mean will such US patent registration be applicable as International patent(International treaty)?

[Dwylbtzle]

yeah--as far as I MYSELF am concerned, the optimal event would be that
i become the richest person in the world behind this

next best would be if it goes out to mankind (cast your bread upon the waters)--and i make no money directly off of it
--and then, of course, maybe it'd be nice if i got the credit

then the two unacceptable possibilities would be
A): if i got disappeared--and it never gets out
or
II): if i (like bessler) keep it secret, as i keep trying to monetize it--
and then fail to do THAT right up to the frikkin day i die of old age

(that would actually be the worst)
hehe
i'd feel like an idiot