Was Johann Bessler a fraudster?

[Roxaway59]

Dax I had a feeling you might say that.

I must say I am not convinced.

It looks deliberate to me and that he disguised it with scribble.

Graham

[John Collins]

I agree it looks like 27, but Bessler’s clue are more subtle. The number 5 is more like a clue being drawn carefully. The rest of the scribbles look more like random marks with no deeper meaning. But maybe I’m wrong?

JC

[Roxaway59]

This is what copilot had to say about the masonic 27.

In Freemasonry, numbers often carry symbolic meanings, and the number 27 is no exception. It is part of the broader Masonic tradition of numerology, which draws on ancient philosophies and mystical traditions. The number 27 is significant because it is the product of 3 times 3 times 3, or 3 cubed. The number 3 itself is highly symbolic in Freemasonry, representing the trinity of life: mind, body, and spirit.

Additionally, the number 27 is connected to the concept of the "Three Times Three," which is a powerful symbol in Masonic rituals and teachings. This concept emphasizes the harmony and balance of the universe, as well as the interconnectedness of all things.

Graham

[SHADOW]

Moi je vois 274 avant le 5!

I see 274 before 5!

[Roxaway59]

The number 3 plays a major role in the number 27 and I have often wondered about the number 3.

For some reason its always been my favourite number since I was a child but there are some significant facts surrounding it.

A lot of formulas contain 3 things like triangular ones as in E=MC2.

I asked copilot to give me some facts about 3 in newtonian physics and there were some interesting ones but the two that stood out for me was these.

Triple point: In thermodynamics, the triple point of a substance is the unique temperature and pressure at which all three phases (solid, liquid, and gas) coexist in equilibrium. This concept is essential for understanding phase transitions and the properties of materials.

Three-body problem: In celestial mechanics, the three-body problem involves predicting the motion of three celestial bodies interacting through gravity. This problem is famously difficult to solve due to the complex gravitational interactions between the bodies, leading to chaotic behavior.

I asked for more details about the three-body problem and this was the reply.

The three-body problem is a classic problem in celestial mechanics that deals with predicting the motion of three gravitationally interacting bodies. It's a fascinating and complex problem because the gravitational interactions between the bodies lead to highly non-linear and chaotic behavior. Here's a more detailed explanation:

Background
Newton's Law of Universal Gravitation: The force of attraction between two masses is proportional to the product of their masses and inversely proportional to the square of the distance between them.

Two-body problem: When only two bodies interact through gravity (e.g., Earth and the Moon), their motion can be precisely described using Kepler's laws of planetary motion. The system is predictable and stable.

Three-body problem
When a third body is introduced into the system, the gravitational interactions become much more complex. The mutual gravitational forces between the three bodies create a dynamic system where the motion of each body affects the others. This leads to a few key characteristics:

Chaotic behavior: The three-body problem exhibits chaotic behavior, meaning that small changes in initial conditions can lead to vastly different outcomes. This makes long-term predictions of the system's behavior extremely difficult.

No general analytical solution: Unlike the two-body problem, there is no general analytical solution for the three-body problem. This means that there isn't a simple formula or set of equations that can describe the motion of the three bodies in all cases.

Numerical methods: To study and predict the motion of a three-body system, numerical methods and computer simulations are often used. These methods involve solving the equations of motion step-by-step over time to approximate the trajectories of the bodies.

Historical significance
The three-body problem has been studied for centuries, with contributions from many famous scientists, including Isaac Newton, Joseph-Louis Lagrange, and Henri Poincaré. The problem has important applications in understanding the motion of celestial bodies, such as the interactions between planets, moons, and stars.

Special cases and solutions
While there is no general solution, there are some special cases and specific configurations where solutions can be found. For example:

Lagrange points: In a system with two large bodies (e.g., the Earth and the Moon) and a much smaller third body, there are five points in space where the gravitational forces and the orbital motion of the smaller body balance out, allowing it to remain in a stable position relative to the larger bodies.

Restricted three-body problem: This is a simplified version where one of the bodies has negligible mass compared to the other two. This approximation can be useful for studying the motion of spacecraft or small celestial objects in a system dominated by two large masses.

The three-body problem remains an active area of research in both theoretical and applied astrophysics. It's a beautiful example of how complex and intricate the interactions in our universe can be.

Graham

[daxwc]

Roxaway59 :
Dax I had a feeling you might say that.

I must say I am not convinced.

It looks deliberate to me and that he disguised it with scribble.

Ok, fair enough but remember this drawing is 18 years before MT and 4 years before DT. So number 27 means what? You can’t have the chicken before the egg.

If it is really there it is a dog whistle for something else. Just my opinion 8)

PS: you should have delayed your answer a couple of minutes 8)))

[Roxaway59]

All I am thinking Dax is that to me it looks deliberate.

As to the why I can only think its to do with secret societies sending coded messages.

I know that this does happen but I don't know the meaning.

Graham

[daxwc]

Maybe more important is that in the rendition the woodcarving the box is blanked and the 5 is missing.

[Roxaway59]

Yes so why would that particular bit of fine detail be taken out including the number 5 whilst leaving other bits of fine detail in place?

Graham

[John Collins]

Just a thought. Maybe the weights were covered in grease, hence the handkerchief? Maybe only the ends were greasy, hence the warning not to feel the ends? Nothing suspicious or evidence of sleight of hand, just concern that his important witnesses might get grease on their hands and fine clothes. Occam’s razor?

JC

[daxwc]

Maybe the add-on pendulums was just for cranking up the spring inside the posts?

Two big springs inside the pillars but then how to transmit the power to the axle?

Maybe we are doing Fletcher's up down thing?

[Roxaway59]

Using springs in a fraudulent way is problematic.

For one thing, in order to store a lot of energy the springs would need to be large and at that time it would have been very difficult to make very large powerful coil springs for example.

Even then, how long could they run for whilst lifting weights?

When it comes to fraud we would have to look at different scenarios for the answer all of which are possible but highly debatable.

Graham

[Roxaway59]

Most of the things I wanted to say playing devils advocate I have already said so from now on I won't be doing that.

I want to point out some things that indicate that the wheels were genuine.

One thing that came to mind fairly recently was to do with the speed of the wheels.

The first wheels were unidirectional wheels and they were said to be stronger and faster than the later wheels.

When considering fraud there is something that for me does not add up.

I think all the wheels would have had to be driven by a person not an internal spring.

If that had been the case would Bessler have designed them to run slower?

I don't think he would have done that if they were driven fraudulently.

I could understand the wheels maybe running a little slower because of size difference but not to the extent they did.

Anyone else have any views on this?

Graham

[Kattla]

He might have made the Kassel wheel run slower if he knew it was to be running for a long time. As to reduce the chance of it stop due to worn out parts.
Though that kinda counter the fraud idea , since if that is the reason, it was genuine.

[Roxaway59]

He might have made the Kassel wheel run slower if he knew it was to be running for a long time. As to reduce the chance of it stop due to worn out parts.
Though that kinda counter the fraud idea , since if that is the reason, it was genuine.

One thing I read recently is that during those last tests the adjoining rooms were inspected to make sure there was no fraud.

I don't recall reading that before so I don't know if that is true.

If its true then that makes fraud even less likely than before.

Graham