Decoupling Per-Cycle Momemtum Yields From RPM

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Re: re: Decoupling Per-Cycle Momemtum Yields From RPM

Post by MrVibrating »

Fletcher wrote:
Bill wrote:
fletcher wrote:My personal opinion Bill is that Bessler took a bit of license with that crack - a bit of bear baiting for Wagner's benefit.

Yet Bessler's statement holds as true today.

I still wonder if Bessler hinted that mechanics alone can't solve the problem.
That's a valid interpretation as any at this point Bill (that other than mechanics is required).

I always could see how you could arrive at that conclusion (based on probability alone), given lack of alternatives in the strictly mechanical field, at this time.

A similar hint along the same lines:
"..Even Wagner, wherever he is now, will have heard that one pound can cause the raising of more than one pound. He writes that, to date, no one has ever found a mechanical arrangement sufficient for the required task. He's right! So am I, and does anyone see why? What if I were to teach the proper method of mechanical application? Then people would say: "Now I understand!�
As noted previously - could he be implying that the solution is, in some sense, non-mechanical?

But then again, he goes on to talk of "proper mechanics" - and what else could the solution be made of, but forces and masses and motion?

My reading of this is that he's coyly acknowledging the impossibility of a GPE asymmetry, whilst pointing out that nonetheless, if you can gain energy by some other means (some other classical symmetry break), then you can raise as much extra mass as you like..
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Re: re: Decoupling Per-Cycle Momemtum Yields From RPM

Post by MrVibrating »

Fletcher wrote:It could be interesting to compare Stewart's translation and thoughts above to those of Mike Senior and JC, at the time ?

The following are Mike Senior translations, at different times (second oldest).
Mike Senior's wiki entry - most recent update wrote:No. 9 Because one has learned that little is to be accomplished with the sphere-wheels like those just now seen in the figures and diagrams, one speculates on another principle, namely: on weights! In all places where I have found weight-figures, these weights are seen to be simple and nothing is attached to the belts or chains. Such is the case with Leupold, but nothing is to be accomplished with his thing unless one acts out of my connectedness principle; but here I do not yet wish to show or discuss the figure for the time being.
Mike Senior in JC's hardcopy MT booklet wrote:No. 9 Because experience shows us that all the ball-driven wheels like those seen in the present figures and diagrams were of no avail, people speculated on another principle, namely: on weights. To be sure, in all the weight drawings that I have found, these weights appear simple and are not connected together with belts or chains, even in Leupold, but nothing is to be accomplished with any device unless my principle of movement is activated: but here I neither wish to show nor discuss the figure for the time being.

Note from JC - The words 'principis agi..t derive, in my opinion, from the Latin 'ago', 'to drive' or 'put in motion', and this translates as 'principle of motion or movement'.
LOL - so we've all been getting the wrong end of the stick there - he's not talking about interconnecting the weights with flexible constraints, so much as a "principle of motion"..?

Leupold's design could actually work fine, producing copious excess energy, according to basic physics. All it requires is that the levers fall or gain / are given reactionless momentum - that is, without counter-torquing the wheel body, and then 'collide' with it afterwards. That's it. That makes KE, from accumulating reactionless momentum.

What would interconnecting the weights with 'belts or chains' do, but provide an alternating 'slack', and then 'inelastic collisions' when pulled taut?

IOW, the belts or chains would not accomplish anything that landing on rimstops doesn't - the central purpose being simply to provide the 'brake' in a reactionless accelerate-and-brake sequence, the causative principle that we already know generates OU. Belts or chains is just another way of sequencing the 'bangs' that redistribute the reactionless momentum back to the net system; ie. simply a means of equalising the speeds again, after a reactionless acceleration of a lever weight..


The "principle of motion" he thus wouldn't want to discuss is the N3 break - the reactionless acceleration. Motivating the lever weights, without inducing counter-momenta during their accelerations.

Accumulating momentum from reactionless accelerate-and-brake cycles is what makes OU. It's that simple, and amply demonstrated here (per my 'chicken run' example, and countless simple maths examples). There is simply nothing at all mysterious about how to make mechanical energy, nor, thus, where Bessler's was coming from.

The 'brake' part of the cycle is fully N3-compliant. It is literally just an inelastic collision - the two interacting inertias equalise their speed, sharing the reactionless momentum rise. Consolidating it.

The 'principle of motion' that preloads that simple collision with magic potential - that preconditions it - is that the preceding acceleration must be reactionless; accelerating one of them, without counter-decelerating the other.


Since this is the only way to achieve mechanical OU, this must implicitly be the context in which to consider all Bessler's mechanical clues..
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Post by MrVibrating »

OK not really much to 'sim' but i just properly checked the MoI ratios of diametric lever weights in relation to that of the net system:

- each diametric lever weight has an MoI about its pivot that is twice that of two such levers about the central axis


So a 2:1 ratio, rather than 3:1.


This doesn't include any other mass however - nothing for the wheel itself, not any other parts.


It would presumably be possible to make it up to 3:1 when taking account of all that other necessary rotating mass, however that all seems a bit arbitrary; whereas the Toys page seems to be fingering a "5 cycs to OU" envelope that is in some sense elementary; that it has to be a 25% per-cycle accumulator..


..and as previously noted, there's two ways such an envelope might arise: one of them is a 3:1 ratio between the amounts of inertia interacting in the 'reactionless acceleration & collision' cycles..

..the other is via inertias in a 1:1 ratio, but whilst also losing half the system momentum and energy per cycle - such as by sinking it to gravity or just cancelling / destroying it by whatever means, and so only accumulting half the momentum actually being drummed up each cycle.

This latter cause would be 'elementary' - it has to be a 25% per cycle accumulator, 4 cycs to unity, 5 to OU - because it cannot be any other way; that's the most efficient the interaction can be. Nothing arbitrary about it.


Seems more likely than the other alternative, doesn't it?


So what are these two equal inertias? Is it the pair of diametric lever weights? Or does it imply a 1:1 inertia ratio between the weight used for the radial GPE, vs one or both of the diamteric levers they're connected to via the scissorjack? That seems unlikely - the radial GPE drop is surely an input of energy, to pay for a momentum gain, thus generated by applying a reactionless force to one or both levers.. that would make more sense..

The ratio of inertia between the two masses involved in the 'bangs' is the real key. What collides with what? If it's a lever weight colliding with the wheel proper, via a rimstop, say, then the ratio of those two interacting components - the wheel / net system versus the landing lever weight - must either necessarily be a 3:1 ratio, thus causing the '5 cycs to OU' envelope, or else, it has to be a 1:1 ratio, and somehow involve dumping half the per-cycle momentum generated to gravity.

Each diametric lever weight has an MoI twice as high as the net system about its central axis, where 'net system' = two such lever weights, and nothing else. Crap start, but it's something. So, what could make that ratio necessarily up to 1:1? Ie. what other rotating mass must be carried by the wheel, in order to raise the MoI of the 'net system' to match that of one of the lever weights? The wheel mass / frame itself, plus the radial GPE, is all i can think of..

Sorry, all a bit vague at the moment.. need another 'lightbulb' moment..
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Post by MrVibrating »

Since i haven't fully turned blue yet:

@ *Everyone*

If you want to make mechanical energy (if that kind of thing appeals to you, (weirdo)), then apply a unilateral force to a mass.

It could be angular or linear. Your shout. Just accelerate it. Just, notionally, assign it some velocity.

Then inelastically (without bouncing), crash it into another, identical mass.

Calculate your input energy, and final energy.

Whatever the outcome, do it again.. and keep doing it - each time, beginning at whatever the final velocity of the previous cycle... noting input energy, and net system KE after each collision.

You're now creating energy, using basic physics, and nothing else. You're gaming the standard KE equation. By cheating N3 on the acceleration phase.


That's what makes mechanical energy.

Ergo, that's what Bessler must've been doing.

If i die still dribbling these words, i want them etched on my tombstone..
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Re: re: Decoupling Per-Cycle Momemtum Yields From RPM

Post by Fletcher »

MrVibrating wrote:Yes, he may not have had our rounded and fully-integrated grasp of the work-energy equivalence principle, but it really does just boil down to leverage, doesn't it?
Yes, ultimately. And therefore how that leverage (mechanical applications) in the context of a conservative gravity field are applied.
MrVibrating wrote:IE. the potential to raise some mass or load a spring or however the energy gain was harnessed. Accumulate enough reactionless momentum, and you have this potential to raise more GPE or compress more sprung PE, than you began with.
Yes, exactly - no other way for a gravity only wheel. There must be a correct mechanical application that starts by itself and accelerates and provides surplus energy to do Work.
MrVibrating wrote:As noted previously - could he be implying that the solution is, in some sense, non-mechanical?

But then again, he goes on to talk of "proper mechanics" - and what else could the solution be made of, but forces and masses and motion?
Forces, masses, motion, and mechanical application interfaces.
MrVibrating wrote:My reading of this is that he's coyly acknowledging the impossibility of a GPE asymmetry, whilst pointing out that nonetheless, if you can gain energy by some other means (some other classical symmetry break), then you can raise as much extra mass as you like..
Quite.
MrVibrating wrote:LOL - so we've all been getting the wrong end of the stick there - he's not talking about interconnecting the weights with flexible constraints, so much as a "principle of motion"..?
And there is the duality - Principle of Perpetual Motion (Motion) whilst also being all of the following ... Connectedness Principle, and a Zusammen Gehangten (Hung Together) Principle.
MrVibrating wrote:What would interconnecting the weights with 'belts or chains' do, but provide an alternating 'slack', and then 'inelastic collisions' when pulled taut? IOW, the belts or chains would not accomplish anything that landing on rimstops doesn't ..
Yet, he mentions Leupolds machine in MT9 as having no connecting belts or chains, says they are required, and shows in MT in-series connections - for what purpose because as you said rimstops would be far better and effective than chains or belts !? I'll come back to this at the end of this post !
MrVibrating wrote:The "principle of motion" he thus wouldn't want to discuss is the N3 break - the reactionless acceleration. Motivating the lever weights, without inducing counter-momenta during their accelerations.

Accumulating momentum from reactionless accelerate-and-brake cycles is what makes OU. It's that simple, ..
It is that simple, in ideal. Possibly a lot harder to come up with the mechanics to achieve that than the good hypothesis might suggest.

But I'd like to throw in another spin or two by way of questions for you to perhaps ponder.

What if the intrinsic start up and acceleration up to working speed for a mechanical gravity wheel was purely due to average positive imbalance state i.e. a CoG that is displaced to one side of the axle. That would also fit your analytical criteria and expression. So if a mechanical way could be found to achieve that then it could also be ruled in as a possibility. Absence of evidence and all that.

But what I'd really like to point out is that have you noticed, as I have, that all lever-weight (lw) wheels (starting at MT9; 9,10,11,12,14,15,16,37,38) with a minimum of in-series connections (hung together) from either belts or ropes etc; the lever and weights cannot physically achieve the positions shown by Bessler in the drawings. They are shown in bogus unachievable positions (i.e. of the extending out and upwards ones (downgoing side) from 12 to 3 if CW n.b. 15 being CCW). Without additional mechanical interventions (not shown) ! I mean they look inherently like they should display like they do (as he intended us to perceive), but if you know your leverage you will surmise they will not look like that at all in physical fact ! They are not so out and up, nor anything like it in reality. Sims will confirm it if in doubt.

I believe they are JACK mechanisms (representations) ! i.e. they combine individual Effort of lw's to lift a subsequent Load(s) ! So they would provide temporary imbalance attributes (like any OOB system) but that would be their SECONDARY purpose, IMO. Jacking or combined lifting power their FIRST purpose !

Something to perhaps think about, and see if it resonates with you at all, or has any place in your future thinking and directions.

Best -f
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Re: re: Decoupling Per-Cycle Momemtum Yields From RPM

Post by WaltzCee »

ovyyus wrote:Bessler was multi-disciplined. If his secret belonged to a discipline outside of mechanics then his point would be missed by mechanics.
Or some combination of those disciplines. I think you make a strong point.

I'll play ovyyus's advocate. A combination of the Precision of watch building, and the
structure of organ building with maybe the physical characteristics of bimetallic Springs.
All that wrapped up into mechanics.
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re: Decoupling Per-Cycle Momemtum Yields From RPM

Post by WaltzCee »

I'll elaborate. Imagine (if you can) the growling and the banging energy in the wheel being
converted to heat. That heat used to keep a bimetallic spring wound. Then the energy
stored in that spring to cause an imbalance.

This isn't my idea. It's just the best I can come up with.
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re: Decoupling Per-Cycle Momemtum Yields From RPM

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re: Decoupling Per-Cycle Momemtum Yields From RPM

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. . .
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re: Decoupling Per-Cycle Momemtum Yields From RPM

Post by Georg Künstler »

Fletcher wrote:
What if the intrinsic start up and acceleration up to working speed for a mechanical gravity wheel was purely due to average positive imbalance state i.e. a CoG that is displaced to one side of the axle. That would also fit your analytical criteria and expression. So if a mechanical way could be found to achieve that then it could also be ruled in as a possibility. Absence of evidence and all that.


purely due to average positive imbalance state
is a positive Feedback Loop.
Then the System is self accelerating.
In the bi directional Wheel, the first Impact shifts the CoG sidewards to one side of the non existing axle, and it stays on the falling side.
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re: Decoupling Per-Cycle Momemtum Yields From RPM

Post by Fletcher »

Hi Georg .. for a Gravity Only wheel to be self accelerating it must, as you suggest, form a positive feed back loop. And have a consistent CoG shift to one side of the axle.

That condition would be the Holy Grail of what we experimenters and theorists in Gravity PM strive for. But we often theorize and build false PM OOB wheels that have only temporary weight imbalance and equal torques, so that they may self start but don't accelerate and build momentum. That's because we don't know any better way as of yet.

The anecdotal evidence from Bessler himself, and the witness accounts etc, including Karl's comment about 'runs from innate momentum' (paraphrased), suggest that that was exactly what he eventually found, imo.

Otherwise it is extremely difficult to explain self starting from any position, and acceleration to working speed, and accumulated momentum able to do Work. That is, putting the theoretical math anomalies about 'Work Energy Equivalence Theorem' reconciliations aside for now.

IOW's inherent accumulation of momentum as the natural Output (i.e. RKE ) from a previously unrecognised energy Input source. That presumably being a derivative of conservative gravity force (heresy in scientific circles where a force is blatantly not energy, but the norm here in terms of a concept just about anyone can grasp having experienced the pull of the earth).

I hope your build delivers all you could want. Best of Luck !
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re: Decoupling Per-Cycle Momemtum Yields From RPM

Post by MrVibrating »

The ratio of the diametric lever weight's MoI to that of the net system is vitally important, so let's take a closer look at a simple example:

Image

• I've chosen an arbitrary system radius of 2 meters

• Each lever arm is 3.855 meters in length

• Using the standard MoI formulas (ref. here), the lever arms' MoI are given by 1/3 their mass times their length squared, and the end bobs, by their mass times their radius squared (relative to their pivots, not the wheel axis); so let's assume a mass of 1 kg for both:

• Arms (each) = (1/3) * 1 * (3.855^2) = 4.953675 kg-m²

• Bobs (each) = 1 * 3.855^2 = 14.861025 kg-m²

..so the MoI of each diametric lever weight is the sum of those two calcs:

• 4.953675 + 14.861025 = 19.8147 kg-m²


OK, so now we want to know their axial MoI, about the wheel axis. Deriving this using the standard MoI calcs would necessarilly get more involved, so let's use the sim to take a shortcut:

• We know that rotational KE is given by half the MoI times angular velocity squared:

• RotKE = ½Iw²

So we can use the 'kinetic()' function of the sim to take the net energy of the system - all of which is going to be rotational KE - and then simply invert that output to derive its MoI component:

• I = rotKE / sqrt(w) * 2

..if we assign an arbitrary value of '1 kg-m²' for the MoI of the wheel body itself, then we can simply deduct that from the above MoI derivation, to leave just the axial MoI of the diametric weight levers:

Image

..and so the net MoI of both levers about the wheel axis - but not including that of the wheel itself, nor any other mass - is 9.6838 kg-m².

So now we can compare the ratio of the two MoI's:

• 19.8147 / 9.6838 = 2.0461

Thus, each diametric lever weight, individually, has an MoI that is equal to twice that of a pair of such levers, rotating about a central axis!


So what is this good for? What does it all mean?


Recall that the shortest route up the OU ladder is a pair of equal masses / inertias in a series of reactionless accelerate-and-brake cycles ('braking' = 'inelastic collision').

The number of such cycles required to reach unity, and then, over-unity, is equal to the sum of the ratio of the two interacting inertias in question; thus, with a 2:1 ratio as found above, the unity threshold would be three cycles, and four to reach over-unity, at 133%.

However, as noted previously, the Toys page indicates five cycles to OU, hence either invoking a 3:1 inertia ratio, or else, a 1:1 ratio, but losing half the generated momentum each cycle.

As also noted already, the first option seems the less likely - why intentionally hobble the interaction with an unnecessarily sub-optimal inertia ratio? Thus the latter option must be the correct one; that the effective N3 break involves sinking our counter-momentum (and thus 50% of the total momentum per-cycle) to gravity!

So we ideally want a 1:1 ratio between the interacting inertias.

To put this back into more familiar terms, we want each 'bang' from the descending side of the wheel to cause the maximal rise in system momentum each cycle, hence we want to increase the MoI of the wheel about its central axis, by adding more mass...


So, what further mass do we need to add?

We're obviously going to need assign some mass to the wheel body itself:

• Bessler noted that his wheel body mass was quite lightweight, using a 'framework'

• The oilskin covers would've added some more mass

• We also know that we need an input GPE, to operate our levers

• This radial GPE may connect via a scissorjack (or gears / pulleys / power conversion generally)

• There may also be a requirement for sprung PE, and thus, springs



So in summary, we can make up that 'target MoI' of the wheel about its axis in any way we like; obviously the wheel body / framework will account for much of it, and the input GPE much of the remainder...

...should it transpire that these components needn't sum to that target MoI, we could just add in some further 'dead mass' purely for the purposes of bumping-up the axial MoI to match that of one weight lever!


So the current 2:1 ratio we're measuring provides us with 'margin' of additional angular inertia for all the other components we're going to need. We already have half of the total axial MoI we want, and we can make up the other half using as much input GPE and 'wheel body / framework' mass as we like!


There's further telling in these figures besides; for instance, we know that however lightweight the wheel body / framework, it can't be too weak and flexible; it has to be sufficiently rigid and strong, hence it's inevitably going to require a fair bit of mass...

..we can try design it in such a way as to keep its radius as low as possible, but inevitably, MoI = mr², hence a lil' bit of framework / wheel body mass is going to add quite a lot of additional MoI..

..the point being, that this would imply that the proportion of additional MoI contributed by the input GPE is inevitably going to be somewhat limited; in other words, not a lot of input GPE is required for success! This is encouraging, but also informative; remember that our total mass for each diametric lever is currently 2 kg, implying that the input GPE is probably less than this, which in turn implies that the input GPE either does not lift these levers, instead impelling them downwards, adding to their gravitation (as depicted in the last MT40-ish doodle), or else, if it is supposed to lift them, then it must do so over a reduced displacement; IE. 1 kg could raise more than 1 kg, albeit over a smaller displacement.. to wit, consistent with a need for power conversion such as via scissorjacks...


Now this seems like better progress, huh? We're deducing functional properties from first principles, and it seems to be falling together with some degree of self-consistency..


So what we need now, to guide us across the finishing line, is the N3 break!


How in the hell are these levers applied in order to crack N3? Obvioushly, we need them to undergo a reactionless acceleration prior to their impacts..

So what is the nature of this reactionless acceleration? Do they simply drop, under their own gravity? Is this drop further accelerated by the radial GPE drop? Perhaps also assisted by the scissorjacks?

Or are they lifted by the radial GPE, again, via the scissorjacks?

Seems like it has to be one or other option, and only one of them is going to provide a consistent logical solution..


Open house here folks - we need to somehow apply an acceleration to these levers, such that they fall on the descending side and impact a rimstop or whatever, but this acceleration mustn't apply counter-torque / counter-momentum back to the wheel axis. Only their impact must. A radial GPE is apparently part of the key to this feat, possibly connecting via a scissorjack..
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Post by MrVibrating »

..so following on from the above logic, the interaction of the radial GPE with the lever weight/s, via the scissorjack, must involve sinking counter-momentum to gravity...

..because if the target MoI ratio is 1:1, but the shortest route to OU is five cycles (at 125%), then sinking counter-momentum to gravity is the name of the game!


So how's it all fit together?

Maybe allowing the lever weights to drop, on the descending side of the wheel, would apply counter-momentum back to the wheel, but for the action of the radial GPE via the scissorjack?

Or else, maybe the radial GPE adds further momentum to the weight levers, in a reactionless manner, but wasting their own linear 'counter' momentum? Does that make any mechanical sense? Dunno, just trawling through what seems like a fairly limited set of possibilities here..

Whatever the answer, like i say, a 1:1 inertia ratio, but 5-cycs-to-OU, means only 50% of the total momentum involved in each cycle is being accumulated by the wheel axis..

..so either the other half's being sunk to gravity, or else precluded from contributing to the accumulating angular momentum for some other reason.

Your brain's as good as mine at this stage..
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Re: re: Decoupling Per-Cycle Momemtum Yields From RPM

Post by MrVibrating »

Fletcher wrote: But what I'd really like to point out is that have you noticed, as I have, that all lever-weight (lw) wheels (starting at MT9; 9,10,11,12,14,15,16,37,38) with a minimum of in-series connections (hung together) from either belts or ropes etc; the lever and weights cannot physically achieve the positions shown by Bessler in the drawings. They are shown in bogus unachievable positions (i.e. of the extending out and upwards ones (downgoing side) from 12 to 3 if CW n.b. 15 being CCW). Without additional mechanical interventions (not shown) ! I mean they look inherently like they should display like they do (as he intended us to perceive), but if you know your leverage you will surmise they will not look like that at all in physical fact ! They are not so out and up, nor anything like it in reality. Sims will confirm it if in doubt.

I believe they are JACK mechanisms (representations) ! i.e. they combine individual Effort of lw's to lift a subsequent Load(s) ! So they would provide temporary imbalance attributes (like any OOB system) but that would be their SECONDARY purpose, IMO. Jacking or combined lifting power their FIRST purpose !

Something to perhaps think about, and see if it resonates with you at all, or has any place in your future thinking and directions.

Best -f
I don't think it's possible to achieve overbalance by lowering any amount of weights, even if acting in concert; i suspect many MT's are shown in positions that demonstrate the hoped for outcomes, rather than the more likely keels, simply to clearly depict the design intentions, futile as they may be. In some cases however, a particular mass might be extended as an MoI variation, rather than a weight lift; tho again, even if the design is actually unworkable regardless.

Obviously the one-way wheels had to have been under static OB torque - no other explanation seems possible. And maybe the bi-directional ones also relied on continual OB torque, having been initiated in either direction... but in this latter case that's not such a foregone conclusion as it is with the one-way models. Maybe the former contained an OB mechanism powered by an asymmetric inertial interaction, while the two-way wheels only needed the asymmetric inertial interaction, with an additional OB mech being unnecessary..

Right now i'm just looking at what must be the 'prime mover' principle - how the OB aspect fits in, i could only speculate, other than that it obviously provides the initial motion that the prime mover then perpetuates...

OB can do more than this, tho - it could provide an initial burst of PE-to-KE that leapfrogs / obviates the first four cycles in a 5-cycs-to-OU envelope, since it makes no difference how a system is accelerated to its 'unity threshold' - thus the first 'bang' could be OU, right off the bat.. without having to endure three cycles of loss before hitting unity.

It might also form the 'sink' for expunging counter-momentum to gravity..

I expect it will become obvious how to apply OB once this thread's objective is found - ie. how to stabilise the energy cost of reactionless momentum in spite of rising RPM's; which is the really crucial detail IMHO.

In terms of the last few systems considered, if the radial GPE moves in the same direction as the long lw's (ie. if they both drop, the former simply adding to the downwards impetus of the latter), then this doesn't seem to offer much help for the whole OB requisite, since the whole system's GPE is lowering.. so for instance if my second 'MT40-ish' doodle had another such mechanism rotated at 90°, then the net system would be over-balanced in the wrong direction..

..whereas, if they instead move in opposing directions - so maybe one or both lw's drop, thus raising the radial GPE via a scissorjack - then at least the OB would be in the 'right' direction if another mech were added at 90°. But then, i don't believe any kind of GPE asymmetry is possible in the first place, making the whole concept of OB torque a tertiary issue to generating and accumulating momentum..

Hopefully, once we've worked out how to use these long lw's to fix the energy cost of momentum-from-gravity, a means to harness it in the form of perpetual OB will become clear.. Maybe OB will prove to be a necessary condition for sinking counter-momentum to gravity, i just don't know at this stage; OB torque's reactionless (applies no counter-torque at the axis), which is about the most it has going for it in my current mindset.

However these diametric lw's are obviously useless for OB itself, so if OB's a key component it must be due to some other mass. Like i say, if it's caused by these radial GPE's then that would require that they're outputs, rather than inputs; but the inflected vs uninflected 'A' figures in MT do seem to correlate to outputs vs inputs or sources / sinks or 'driver' vs 'driven' or whatever the dichotomy, so an angular lift with radial drop seems the most likely application of the GPE's coupled to the diametric lw's, and this results in under-balance rather than OB, so i just don't have a good, consistent hypothesis on the role or application of OB at the moment.

As i say, i'm just hoping that, having cracked the 'gain momentum from gravity' aspect, how to apply the OB aspect will become obvious..

I think the next step for me is to experiment with simply dropping these diametric lw's onto a rimstop, to try to get a better handle on the momentum and UB / OB dynamics..

It seems obvious that the one-way wheels began under static OB torque - you can't generate static torque by any other means without some kind of 'stator', so sprung PE alone can't provide the answer, and obviously, you can't start generating asymmetric inertial interactions until you're already moving, so OB torque really does seem the only option.. but as ever, it's also an intractable leaping-off point to begin with.. hence i'm just gonna ostrich it until i can figure out how to fix the per-cycle momentum yields / energy cost!
silent
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re: Decoupling Per-Cycle Momemtum Yields From RPM

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Last edited by silent on Mon Oct 04, 2021 9:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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