Gravity Wheel

[Calloway]

Silent, I actually bought 8 all thread rods to try on the pendulums instead of twine. I just haven't tried them out yet. Been working with the slider weights first to fix that problem when I can. Thank you

[Calloway]

ME, You are correct on the 3:00 o'clock side. The pendulum comes in too high and dives low going cw..It would completely miss the sliding block. Everything has to be done at the 9:00 position going cw. Now, ccw the pendulum comes in at the 3:00 position and pushes the sliding weighted pair to the left. I like coming in at exactly 9:00 position because it's a perfect right angle with the least resistance pushing the weight. The unbalance is still strong and as soon as the pendulum starts moving the block in, with its pair block moving out, this futher supports unbalance and gravity takes over from that point moving them to their final position. By that time the next pendulum in line is ready to do the same thing. The reason I use wire instead of a shaft, is wheel axle shaft interference. You have to go over or under the axle shaft. Maybe someone has a better idea at this point. Look at my first pic very close to see the wires crossing the axle shaft. Cheers

[silent]

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[agor95]

May I propose a potential improvement?

After the left-hand pendulum presses on the sliding weight to start their movement.
The right-hand weight hits the right-hand pendulum; when it completes the transition.

The sliding weights will have gained some Kinetic Energy and this can be transferred
to the pendulum.

However there is a catch to this proposal.

The pendulums can only rotate Counter Clockwise in a Clockwise rotating wheel.

The reasoning is the pendulum will be positioned even further out than normal.
This will make the wheel even more unbalanced.

There will be some counter torque during the initial pressure stage.

Hopefully this will help reduce that effect.

However it will mean the wheel can only rotate in one direction.

The good news is there will be asymmetry. That is a good thing to have in a device.

[Georg Künstler]

The problem will be the coordinated swinging of the pendulums.

They will swing with different amplitudes during the turn.

In my opinion not manageable with this construction.

But give it a try and we will see.

[Calloway]

agor95, Let's make sure we are both on the same line of thinking. Let's just have one weight pair on the wheel for now. If I turn the wheel cw until I have the sliding weights on the 180 degree horizontal line, the left inside sliding weight is all the way to the left at 9.00 o'clock and the right hand sliding weight is at or near the right side of center on the same180 degree line. Remember they are tied together with a wire to act as one.The wheel would be heavy on the left side. Lets just use 2 pendulums for illustration purposes. The left pendulum is mounted by twine and hanging at or about the 10:30 position on a bolt. The pendulum weight itself is hanging down at the left end of the sliding weight pair on the 180 degree line. The other pendulum on the right side of the wheel is attached at or about the 1:30 position on a bolt and hanging down. But it's to the right of that sliding weight and up higher than the left side because the weight is near the center. If we start turning cw the left swinging pendulum pushes the slider weight pair to the right. The other weight also goes right being attached by wire to the left weight. The 180 degree line is starting to turn towards vertical also. When the pendulum travels about 150mm pushing the weighted pair, gravity takes over the weighted pair and they slide all the way to the right banging the end of the track . The left pendulum has been left and it picks up and continues across the wheel shaft. The right pendulum is high and starts coming in low and out as the wheel turns and it completely misses the right slider weight pair if timed properly. Your right , the natural flight of the pendulums from 12 to 6 fly or swing out on a cw turn. From 6 to 12 which is the left side, swing or fly inwards. So the flight pattern changes with rotation speed. The inward swing in at 9:00 o'clock has alot of force to push the weighted pair and it does it very well. Cheers

[agor95]

Following my recommendation there would be movement but no swing back.

The pendulums would hang down after the wheel rotates.

[agor95]

I see your design and it is clean and simple. Just the way it needs to be for simulation, modelling and building.

The more extras the more things that can go wrong.

Regards

[Calloway]

agor95, Thanks for your intrest and advice. It is appreciated! Cheers

[silent]

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[Calloway]

Silent, Your welcome and thank you. Cheers

[Senax]

Yes, you mentioned the pairing. A free hanging pendulum should be out of reach of the sliding weight at 3-o'clock because it distances itself from the wheel. The push should come from the 9.
Questions, if you don't mind me asking:
When you use a wire to connect them, do you also have them pulleyed around the edge and circling back? Isn't it easier to make it a sliding rod?
Is it designed to push the sliding weights before or after it reaches the 9-o'clock position?

I tried sliding rods on my Vimmy wheel. Theoretically if they rotate fast
enough the differential EG should give you an energy gain.

I found that experimentally the angle (needed between 9 and 12) before
the rods started to slide was too great for any energy generated to
overbalance the wheel.

Congratulations on the build. It's a lot more professional than mine was. 😊

It seems to me that the principle is sound enough but the difficulty is in the
experimental execution. There is only a small rotation speed window where
the thing's going to work. Too slow and you won't get enough EG differential.
Too fast and the rods end up at the perimeter.

Still, if one could get continuous rotation, however weak and slow,
(cf. the dominant flywheel) that would be proof of principle and huge advance.

P.S. If you should happen to get continuous rotation I strongly advise you
to publish a video Otherwise some lurker will publish and claim priority.
I believe this General Forum counts as publication since it's accessible
to all, unlike the Community Buzz Forum that's only accessible
to Bessler Forum Members.

The basic idea isn't original but continuous rotation of an hour, say, will be.
Ideas are cheap but proving them isn't.

[Calloway]

Senax, I have no problem with anybody stealing, using or claiming the idea is theirs. No greed here what so ever. I dont want or need the problems that could be associated with it. Its released to the group and it is public so the first person with the running wheel can have it all. I'll just stay in my shop and do my thing. Cheers

[WaltzCee]

I think the concern, Calloway, is the invention will be suppressed. However, I don't think
that's possible. You did get me thinking though. Suppose the Greeks had nuclear power.
The Roman Empire might never have existed. Who would have built all those roads?

PS. My voice to text sometimes misspells words. It's really bad with synonyms. Sometimes
it capitalizes words. But it's a blessing to my carpal tunnel syndrome.

Who ever builds it first can have all the glory. I don't want it. It's a crying shame that Bessler carried this secret to his grave because of greed. The world today might have been a very different place. Cheers

You can believe that.

[WaltzCee]

OK folks - Calloway seems to be a very nice fellow and I do wish him success here and has worked out a very simple and ingenious mechanism but there are several issues with the concept that need to be addressed.

Essentially this is a design similar in concept to any sliding weight design with the addition of a mechanism to initiate the sliding process.

And it has the same inherent problems of any sliding weight design in that the action requires the wheel to turn before the weights can slide. This in Bessler speak unfortunately is putting the cart before the horse similar to any sliding weight design.

The sliding of the weights does not occur for free here and necessarily sucks power from the wheel momentum to achieve the weight transfer.

This is due to the fact that any sideways displacement of the pendulum bob at the 9 o'clock position is causing the bob to rise - the bob rises due to contact with the sliding weight. This gain in GPE of the bob must then be paid for by reducing wheel momentum. When the bob has gained enough GPE in the sideways displacement it can then overcome the static friction in the sliding weights to effect displacement of the weights. But wheel momentum has been robbed.

The next problem is also similar to any sliding weight design in that the weights slide too late to do any good and to make matters worse do not return to their inboard location around the entire lower half of the wheel.

This unfortunately wastes a tremendous amount of GPE in that the wheel is bottom loaded by the system for no gain since the weights do not return to the inboard position until the 9 o'clock position has been reached.

The bottom loaded weights then must be lifted from the 6 to 9 position causing substantial countertorque to rotation and again this lifting against keeling of the bottom loaded weights is a complete waste of energy exactly similar to any sliding weight design as the weights are not retracted to their more inboard location before the 6 'oclock position and thus bottom load the wheel for no benefit.

The basic concept here is similar to Agor 95's M Turbine idea that used springs and connected sliding weights on either side of the axle to try and achieve the same effect.

These are issues that are identical to any sliding weight design and were identified long ago by many others and do not miraculously go away if a mechanical means replaces gravity as the initiator of the sliding process.

The primary issue is then LATENCY - the weights slide too late to achieve the desired result and only slide because the wheel is turning. This is getting cause and effect backwards and is the cart before the horse issue that Bessler identified as critical.

And as analyzed above, gravity is actually still the initiator of the sliding process as the pendulum bobs - which are HEAVY must be lifted against gravity in their sideways swing to then drive the sliding weights horizontally. Essentially a ramp mechanism as the bob gains height with sideways displacement due to contact with the sliding weights.

And if anyone has tried to push a heavy box up a ramp, one discovers that large energy input is required.

This is then a definite step forward in sliding weight driven concepts but is not a runner as presented.

These are all good points. I think the most significant one is latency. Do you suppose if the
Bob's were in a different position, and that energy would be transferred some way to cause
the weights to slide that it would have a chance then?