Bessler Wheel question

[ruggerodk]

That's cool, Helloha ;-)

Maybe you could try to put a Torsion Spring into the center-axle?

From your wheel-drawing I assume that a full swing (left to right) of the pendulum will give like half (180°) of the center-axle....

regards
ruggero ;)

[helloha]

ruggerodk

Maybe you could try to put a Torsion Spring into the center-axle?

hmm... no idea how....
any forum members know how to simulate a torsion spring in wm2d ?

and where is the center-axle u refering ?

anyway, make a 3d animation on the pendulum, enjoy
http://youtu.be/cpVw0J2GOYc

[ruggerodk]

@Helloha

I'm refering to this center-axle:

ruggero ;-)

[Andyb]

Hi, i think the iron tube was placed through the center of a large lead weight which was the shape of a grind stone ,if i am right then it would make sense that it is never seen ,it would give to much away,and on top of that they are easy to cast, just a thought Andy.

[rlortie]

Ruggero,

Interesting drawing you have posted, a torsion spring within the pendulum bob.

Would it make for fooling the action into thinking the rod length is changing the COM, creating the 'Botafumeiro" motion? This may or may not give angular momentum increasing amplitude.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Botafumeiro

In Galician, "botar" means "to eject, to throw away, to expel".

Problem: No pendulums were noted on the exhibited wheels, so the action would have be within the drum. Bessler stated that all must turn with the axle, so how would you ground a torsion spring.

Ralph

[ruggerodk]

Ralph ;-)
Hell...I didn't know my drawing skill turned out that bad - Used to make a living out of it!
I guess you realised it's not inside the bob, but inside the center axle...or perhaps a separate disk?

Even though pendulums are no must-be, they are great fun - so why not play the game ;-)

Ruggero

[rlortie]

Ruggero,

Always willing to play the game, its the birth of innovation!
It also shows that a considered professional can ms-interpret a drawing! A quick glance and my mind lead me to believe I was looking at a blow up of the pendulum bob.

Now I am left to wonder what such a configuration would accomplish?

Ralph

[ruggerodk]

@rlortie: I wonder too...;-)
My first thought was to just study the whole pendulum arrangement as a separate mech viewed from its own frame of reference. I asked myself simple questions like, you know: What is going on here? Maybe JB isn't at all showing a (familiar) pendulum but symbolizing some kind of movement - why, (a) some bob-on-a-rod part turn/swing within certain limit from a pivot, (b) connected to another rod/stick which in turn is (c) connected to some kind of rotating disc?
What part could make another/all part move/react? By what action and how to initiate or make that action appear? With what and how to compare to results from other mechs?

Problem: No pendulums were noted on the exhibited wheels, so the action would have be within the drum.

Agree! It's an 'icon/symbol'.

Bessler stated that all must turn with the axle, so how would you ground a torsion spring.

From an innovative point of view I'll ground it same place as the 'pendulum'.

When this is done I would try changing perspective: Viewing the mech from another frame of reference (fx as you do standing inside or outside a Merry-go-round).
Now, what do I see? Does anything change - initiating, actions, movements?
Is it possible to accomplish the same result as before? How and by what means?

Fx: Framed as a separate mech, you input some force by either rising the pendulum, pushing the connector-rod or rotating the center 'disc' (axle in the drawing).
BUT...viewed from outside, what if the whole mech were moving! Then you have to ask yourself: What makes the pendulum 'rise' or the 'disc' rotate?

At least it's a start. And a fun one ;-)

ruggero ;-)

[Tarsier79]

Fact: power relative to gravity input doesn't care which reference frame you use.. Relavitely, it is only concerned with M x H.

[ruggerodk]

@>Tarsier: What in my last post made you relate power specifically to gravity?

[Tarsier79]

After re-reading your above post, I have no Idea and have forgotten my train of thought when I posted. It probably didn't help that my thought process may have been inhibited from pickling in alcohol.

Re the torsion spring: it is merely a storage device, so I fail to see the advantag of adding one to the centre axle. What the design lacks is its "prime mover".

[veproject1]

The educational system when students study to answer questions has failed.
Why don't teach them to ask questions. That's what I'm doing.

@veproject1, I see on your profile that you are an engineer. I also like your quality builds. Could you please spell out your intentions for making these models and videos. I do wish you explained to your viewers that every model you made don't work but this is what it would look like if it did work. Your objective? ??

[justsomeone]

I can respect that. Thanks for responding. Great builds!

[path_finder]

Dear helloha,
There are so many ways to use the springs!
http://www.tinyclutch.com/spring-clutches
One end linked to the axle of the primemover, the second end to a pendulum, per example.

[wheelrite]

There is more than one item of evidence pointing to Bessler using springs of some sort as we know, personally I think them essential. Regards Jon