Gravity wheels with a fundamental difference

[Georg Künstler]

Here the sketch for the asymmetric force.
The total weigth of the internal construction will produce a force on the rim of the Hamster cage.
To achive this, the internal construction is fastened on a long hole.
Depending on the upper weight, the wheel on the rim will turn upwards to the given position,
The force on the rim is variating depending on the angle.
The angle is a proportion between the upper and the lower weight and the effective

asymmetric force

lever arms.

We have a loose axle (therefore we have the long hole) for the internal construction, so gravity will act as a force on the rim.
Remember Bessler's words, the force has to be applied in the correct angle.
Also we have the function two weights, one is arranging the other.
Such a construction will not work, I know, because it is not oscillating.
The force on the rim is constant, but it is an asymmetric force, and an asymmetric force is needed for the self starting wheel.
As shown in the sketch you will have a permanent force on one side of the Hamster cage.

[Robinhood46]

I have started building a physical wheel, because I'm fed up with Algodoo being a pain in the butt.
I'm hoping to be able to use this wheel for various attempts, without turning it into a pin cushion. I can just unbolt the wooden arms and throw them away, and start again with some new ones. The biggish washers are where the heavy weights will be going and there are a few holes to shift them nearer and further from the axle when desired.
I'm not too sure that 8 sections with 3 arms is exactly what i will need, to achieve my goal, but one has to start somewhere, and everything is demountable, so drilling some more reasonably precise holes around the perimeter would not be a big deal.
The video shows the independence of all the components, which are fixed to the same axle, which is fixed solidly to the frame without being able to rotate itself.
The next step is to add the light weights, which will be at the extremity of the wooden arms, and they will be doing the moving, not the heavy weights, which will be fixed.
The plan is to get the light weights to only apply force to the wheel on the down going side and be completely free from the wheel on the up going side. The independent movement of each arm during rotation, is what i think is represented by AP, and this is what will be "hopefully" causing the raising of the light weights at 6 ish and the shifting over/up at 2 ish, by the interconnections between the arms.
For the video i have taken the front face off, so as to show the mechanism more clearly. The photos show the wheel with the face repositioned.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/hhKwitRg_Mc
What format of photos is accepted?

[Tarsier79]

Looks like an awesome build RH!

[thx4]

RH46 has a little problem with his PC, I post some pictures of his magnificent multitasking proto... :)





A++

[Robinhood46]

I beg to differ Thx, i think his problem is with RH46 not his pc.
Thanks for posting them.

[Robinhood46]

To raise a weight 80cm we need to raise the same weight only 25cm. In the simulation. To reinitiate the starting positions.
In the real world i was able to do a little better. An 880 gramme weight close to the axle and a 150 gramme weight (approx) shifting out at the perimeter. From 7 o'clock, i was able to achieve one complete turn and raise the weight to 10 o'clock, which is also about 80cms because my wheel has a smaller diameter than the sim. The swinging of the lighter weight was closer to 10 cms.
If the light weights when being lifted by the heavy weight don't touch the outer wheel, they can be raised independently and have no influence on the wheel. The natural swinging out of the light weights after 12 would cause the knocking heard and each weight would take it's turn to apply a little force to the wheel.
https://youtu.be/UxVfsLOwMLg

[Robinhood46]

Here i have gone back to 15 sections, and put 5 crossbars, which are identical in principal to the arms of my real world build.
Because of my inability to get the hang of ropes, i have added a ramp which lifts the lighter weights the necessary height to shift the predominance to the other end. The ramp could lift the weight earlier, which would obviously be better, but this implies adding an additional mechanism to hold it in the raised position.
If we take the AP wheel as showing us where the magic happens, or how ever we wish to express the position in space, where the movement takes place, we can imagine the raising arm around 10 ish, twanging the bow and lifting the following arm's lighter weight around 6 ish (or maybe the weight after the following one depending on how many arms are present). The raising arm with the lighter weight, in it's inner position, would be at maximum inertial force after just crossing the horizontal. This arm would be giving an upward impetus. After losing the majority of it's inertia due to raising the other lighter weight, it would still be bottom heavy and would only need to shift the lighter weight on the proceeding arm horizontally, for it to become the predominant end and be forced to descend turning the wheel until it reaches 5.30.
If you try to imagine the simulation being rotated about 45 degrees anticlockwise, which puts the lifting ramp at 6 o'clock as opposed to 7.30 where it is, we can clearly see that the wheel is full one side and empty the other.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfghMCKDZX8

[agor95]

Bravo building a sim with that software without it blowing up!

Plus a sophisticated concept.

Kudos

[Robinhood46]

I like what i am observing in my current build.
Here is a simulation which gives an idea of what is going on.
The objective is to find the optimal balance between the inner and outer positions, with the minimum of displacement needed to achieve it. The MT13 style swinging in, of the lighter weight after 6 ish, is sufficiently effective to cause the rapid raising of the weight, which is also completely independent of the outer wheel. The arm needs to reconnect with the wheel, at a different position (the fundamental difference) so as to take advantage of the inertia in the wheel which hasn't been used up, raising the weight.
As soon as the weight starts swinging in, the COG is shifted 180°, just like the letters of Bessler's name.
https://youtu.be/tQrunA2noBA

[thx4]

As soon as the weight starts swinging in, the COG is shifted 180°, just like the letters of Bessler's name.

You've been talking about it for years but nobody listens to you :), I hope you'll know how to use it, the best for the future.

A++

[agor95]

Very small point

We do not listen for we have not had a zoom meeting [AKA video/audio meeting like https://meet.jit.si/jitsi].

We choose not to read of cause.

P.S. the jitsi is end-to-end encrypted in one-to-one meetings.

Just saying.

[agor95]

Hello Robinhood46

Just gave your YouTube demo a listen. It sounds squeaky clean.

You are closer to the sim I have in mind than me.

However building a sim from the ground up does give a person.
Control of the internal calculations to allow proper validation and verification of the results.

There are differences for example the arm is balances when the small weight is extended. Also the small weight is folder up towards the axle on it's way down.

Apart from that there are lots of options to investigate.

Note.

The above idea is like a momentum transfer device.
Where gravity facilitate the process.

Regards

[Robinhood46]

The above idea is like a momentum transfer device.
Where gravity facilitate the process.

That is a good way of expressing it, and it opens up more thoughts.

[Robinhood46]

Is Algodoo really just being a pain, or is it showing us something that we don't want to see?
While playing with my recent construction, i managed to find the fine balance i have been seeking, by turning the swivel points of the light weights 90° (the missing dimension with 2D simulations). The amount the weights need to move to shift the COG 180° is minimal. Obviously, the more the weights move, the further the COG is from the central axle, but we are not seeking power, we are only seeking a net gain.
The positioning of the weights, in relation to each other, and the crossbar, allows me to place wherever i like the COG. If the heavy weight is at 6 (held), i can have the COG anywhere (360°) with the slightest of movement of the heavy weight.
If you take two weights perfectly balanced at 12 and 6, you have the COG at the axle, no movement whatsoever. Move the weight at 6, 1 cm to the right and the COG is now at 3 o'clock. Move it 1 cm up to the right at 45° and the COG is at 1.30 ish.
Algodoo is shifting the COG, in the same manner, by moving the central axle in relation to the weights, because Algodoo uses cheap bearings from Amazon, or they have special bearings that Alice got when she was the other side of the looking glass.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1wdYlX_a_4

[besslerrad]

Hi Robinhood46,

Thanks for sharing your ideas about gravity wheels with a fundamental difference and also for your great videos about your simulations.

I'm also using Algodoo since a few years and often run into similar problems. It seems, that there are lots of possibilities for "simulation PMs" ;-)

Here's a very simple one:

If I remove the bars, which are forming the rectangle, the simulation behaves like one would expect. Normally, the bars should have no (big) effect on the sim, but in Algodoo, they are producing a "simulation runner".

When replacing the Algodoo axle tool with some "hand made" bearing, this does not happen anymore.

Kind regards,
Stefan