The ONE WORD that could give it ALL AWAY !

[Tarsier79]

Reverse engineering... The problem is Besslers words are so vague you could apply them to many mechanisms. (And I have to many of my builds.) Even extrapolating from a working model, you are working from biased assumptions. For instance, with my current build I can see where a horizontal storksbill could be used, its special property being the change in direction of force, even though I am not using one.

[eccentrically1]

jb, it helps us understand you better if you break up run-on sentences into smaller ones.

[eccentrically1]

Not reverse engineering, that is when you have a complete machine and you take it apart to see how it works. I said "reverse detect" , meaning you have a working design and IF it's the right one you could detect the Bessler single word and clue interpretations from that. I suppose if you did manage to build a working design at that point you wouldn't care if it was a genuine Bessler wheel or not.

[Sam Peppiatt]

Hi Fletcher!
Storks Bills: I built 3 of them, the last one was the best. It is tapered with 6 stages, like the one shown on MT-40. It will stretch from about 5 inches to 3 feet. I did the best I could, but the efficiency is only about 70%. The test I did was for, or with, a MA of 4 : 1, a pound weight would only lift 3 pounds. It tends to be a little wishy washy for want of a better term. However, with precision ball bearings it would be a lot better; (19), of them.

Here is the killer; how do you work them? You can not use a weight. You just can't use one weight to lift another weight. On this point the pr*ck scientist, (as much as I hate them), are, as far as I know; are dead right----------------------------------------Sam

[WaltzCee]

Pizza? Pizza? Did someone say Pizza?!

I love pizza. It's so versatile. Imagine a slice of pepperoni, now detach one of those delectable peperonis and roll it around the crust. Brings to mind a pendulum doesn't it?

So all peperonis lead to pendulum? Not so fast there.

Put 2 slices edge to edge with the crusts on opposite sides. Can you see the storks bill?

There's way more to say a about pizza however I need to save something for the book.

One last thing. Normally they cut the pie (pi) in 8 pieces. Coincidence? I don't think so.

[johannesbender]

jb, it helps us understand you better if you break up run-on sentences into smaller ones.

Well, my mind jumps to the next thought before I can clamp down on grammar, so I have now downloaded a grammar checker to correct the issue.

My point is, my pick of principles/words or such would be limited only to one area, wherein which I think is critical requirements, specifically more to do with physics than any certain tools/devices, for example like GPE.

Since principles and properties of physics apply to multiple mechanical tools/implements/devices, and there is no singular device/tool/implement that inherently owns the functional requirements -according to known physics and detracters.

But, the application of certain principles is what determines function, and it is this that is not always directly inherent, and not exactly limited either.

[eccentrically1]

That’s why I think his wheels had to be environmentally driven, his “ principle of pm”, according to known physics would be the only way for his wheel to appear as pm or OU. So if the single word was in that area (like “temperature” or “pressure” or “wind” or “heat” then I’d think a principle such as environmental energy is a good candidate.

[Fletcher]

Reverse engineering... The problem is Besslers words are so vague you could apply them to many mechanisms. (And I have to many of my builds.) Even extrapolating from a working model, you are working from biased assumptions. For instance, with my current build I can see where a horizontal storksbill could be used, its special property being the change in direction of force, even though I am not using one.

By now you will be getting the uncomfortable feeling (even tho you maybe resisting thinking like this) that I am culling options ruthlessly, eliminating ambiguity, narrowing choices, being pigheaded biased, exercising extreme prejudice (take your pick). The opposite of what we all have done and continue to do till now, where we practice fluidity of choices, and are NOT exclusive. Being mechanically monogamous does not come naturally ;7)

B. was not about choices - he said .. SB's were the ONLY game in town (paraphrased). He couldn't have been clearer ! There was something SPECIAL behind the SB. SPECIAL means UNIQUE ! ONLY found in a variation of a SB, IMO ! We need to find that 'mechanical attribute' that is the 'specialness' (special quality), that ONLY a SB variation can have. No other type of mechanical lever type can do what this SB variation can do !

Case in point Tarsier : If a SB in your build can be swapped out for another type of lever (and you have) then that is NOT what is SPECIAL BEHIND SB's (in your case you want ANY lever system to change force direction - the more efficiently the better - and many types can do that). That ability to change force direction is NOT unique to SB's, and SB's alone ! If a SB can be changed out for something else we probably haven't nailed the specialness we seek.

[Fletcher]

Hi Fletcher!
Storks Bills: I built 3 of them, the last one was the best. It is tapered with 6 stages, like the one shown on MT-40. It will stretch from about 5 inches to 3 feet. I did the best I could, but the efficiency is only about 70%. The test I did was for, or with, a MA of 4 : 1, a pound weight would only lift 3 pounds. It tends to be a little wishy washy for want of a better term. However, with precision ball bearings it would be a lot better; (19), of them.

Here is the killer; how do you work them? You can not use a weight. You just can't use one weight to lift another weight. On this point the pr*ck scientist, (as much as I hate them), are, as far as I know; are dead right----------------------------------------Sam

That's ALL our experiences too Sam .. the scientists are completely right !!! - IF we try to use them just for their lever qualities. They are no better, and often much worse than other lever types. Why would you even use them ? They stick, they bind up, they rub, they are in short a headache to use, especially when there are far better mechanical alternatives available - IF we ONLY wanted something for its MA x SR abilities !!!

In one of my last posts in this thread I put up the quote from B. in DT, where he compared himself to other living giants of his time. He put their names up in CAPITALS - here is the quote again ..

Bessler in DT Pg 212 John Collins Digital :

Could it be then, since my invention has not yet been welcomed,
as befits its importance, with open arms, that something vital is
lacking therein? I believe that the shortcoming consists only in
this, that it was destined to be revealed, not to one of those
most famous personages known to all the world, such as
DESCARTES, GALILEO, HUYGHENS, WEIGEL, STURM,
LEIBNITZ or any other such who are still living, but to a humble
man whose greatness is more inwardly than outwardly
apparent, obscure both in name and origin.

Note that Issac NEWTON's name does NOT appear in that list of living giants he gives homage too ! But Galileo does, who was the foundation for Newton's 1687 "Principia" (Laws of Motions).

I infer that this was not an accidental snub of NEWTON (and his LAWS !!!). In that they were/are correct MOST of the time, but B. found ONE mechanical arrangement where they did not hold true. And he knew it beyond a doubt ! He had his runners ! I think he may have thought if he had proper acknowledgement and understanding of his PM principle he too would have been on that exclusive list, AND probably could relegate Newton and his "LAWS" back to a journeyman's Theorem !

How does B. use SB's in the Toy's Page Sam ? Ultimately we have to use them to increase a wheels momentum. Finding that method is the challenge.

[Leafy]

I just thought of a design for stork bills... but not sure if I should declassify or keep it as one of the top secret. lol

[Fletcher]

At least SB's are on your radar now Leafy lol.

[Leafy]

Nah, it’s not all that so I’ll post it up for fun.

[preoccupied]

Leafy your storks bill sounds like it has potential. There is a unit difference for every square you place outside the circle. You have one square outside the circle but there could be ten or something.

[Tarsier79]

A SB's specialness depends on how pigheaded and narrow minded the author is, unable to use any other mechanism to achieve the same goal. Imo, there is very little a SB can do you cannot do with another mechanical arrangement.

[Leafy]

Thanks preoccupied,

I can't handle the power of x10. The Stork Bill might break. hehe You can increase the weight though.