Ma dernière élucubration!
My latest delusion!
PROCESS RESTART
Moderator: scott
Re: PROCESS RESTART
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La propriété, c'est le vol!
P.J. PROUDHON
P.J. PROUDHON
Re: PROCESS RESTART
Hi Shadow, basically I have merged your design with things that I have done in the past.
Graham
Graham
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Re: PROCESS RESTART
Intégré dans une roue!
Integrated in a wheel!
Integrated in a wheel!
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La propriété, c'est le vol!
P.J. PROUDHON
P.J. PROUDHON
Re: PROCESS RESTART
Bonjour Graham,
Pas mal non plus avec les ressorts!
Mais n'est ce pas encore, un leurre d'algodoo?
Hello Graham,
Not bad either with the springs!
But isn’t that still, an algodoo lure?
Pas mal non plus avec les ressorts!
Mais n'est ce pas encore, un leurre d'algodoo?
Hello Graham,
Not bad either with the springs!
But isn’t that still, an algodoo lure?
Last edited by SHADOW on Mon Mar 03, 2025 3:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.
La propriété, c'est le vol!
P.J. PROUDHON
P.J. PROUDHON
Re: PROCESS RESTART
Shadow I think the answer to that is yes probably and the only way forward is to check it with WM2D and or do a real build.
I can have a go at doing something similar in WM2D when I have time and I will let you know.
Graham
I can have a go at doing something similar in WM2D when I have time and I will let you know.
Graham
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Georg Künstler
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Re: PROCESS RESTART
Hi Shadow,
your look to the wheel is only a look around the center of the wheel.
A wheel itself is always in balance if you don't add an additional force.
This force must be able to act independently from the main movement.
A fix axle does not allow to move the center of gravity in any direction.
No wandering of CoG and therefore no gain of energy,
in other words: if the center of mass is identical to the center of rotation there is to energy gain possible.
Energy differences are only possible if CoG NE CoM.
With faster rotation systems the energy differences occur when CoM is outside the center of rotation(CoR).
Only my opinion and I like no one to offend with this post.
your look to the wheel is only a look around the center of the wheel.
A wheel itself is always in balance if you don't add an additional force.
This force must be able to act independently from the main movement.
A fix axle does not allow to move the center of gravity in any direction.
No wandering of CoG and therefore no gain of energy,
in other words: if the center of mass is identical to the center of rotation there is to energy gain possible.
Energy differences are only possible if CoG NE CoM.
With faster rotation systems the energy differences occur when CoM is outside the center of rotation(CoR).
Only my opinion and I like no one to offend with this post.
Best regards
Georg
Georg
Re: PROCESS RESTART
Bonjour Georg!
Je ne fais fais que partager mes turpitudes du moment!
Je ne peux aucunement affirmer que j'ai une solution.
Je suis ouvert à toutes critiques quand l'argumentation est recevable!
Le tambour qui cache la solution tourne forcement autour d'un axe!
Le reste reste à découvrir.
Pour ma part une des solutions que je recherche est une excentration de masse qui appuie sur la roue extérieure.
mes autres pistes n'ayant pas de potentiel de travail évident
Si tu as une proposition concernant un logiciel SIM gratuit je suis preneur! Car Algodoo c'est de la daube pour faire ce que nous recherchons!
Hello Georg!
I just share my turpitudes of the moment!
I cannot say that I have a solution.
I am open to all criticism when the argument is admissible!
The drum that hides the solution must turn around an axis!
The rest remains to be discovered.
For my part, one of the solutions I am looking for is a mass eccentration that presses on the outer wheel.
my other leads with no obvious job potential
If you have a proposal for a free SIM software I’m interested! Because Algodoo is crap to do what we are looking for!
Je ne fais fais que partager mes turpitudes du moment!
Je ne peux aucunement affirmer que j'ai une solution.
Je suis ouvert à toutes critiques quand l'argumentation est recevable!
Le tambour qui cache la solution tourne forcement autour d'un axe!
Le reste reste à découvrir.
Pour ma part une des solutions que je recherche est une excentration de masse qui appuie sur la roue extérieure.
mes autres pistes n'ayant pas de potentiel de travail évident
Si tu as une proposition concernant un logiciel SIM gratuit je suis preneur! Car Algodoo c'est de la daube pour faire ce que nous recherchons!
Hello Georg!
I just share my turpitudes of the moment!
I cannot say that I have a solution.
I am open to all criticism when the argument is admissible!
The drum that hides the solution must turn around an axis!
The rest remains to be discovered.
For my part, one of the solutions I am looking for is a mass eccentration that presses on the outer wheel.
my other leads with no obvious job potential
If you have a proposal for a free SIM software I’m interested! Because Algodoo is crap to do what we are looking for!
La propriété, c'est le vol!
P.J. PROUDHON
P.J. PROUDHON
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Georg Künstler
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- Posts: 1774
- Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 12:22 pm
- Location: Speyer, Germany
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Re: PROCESS RESTART
Hi Shadow,
my first attempts were also the way to an eccentical weight distribution inside of the wheel.
This always ends up in a sinking/dropping total potential energy and therefore the wheel is comming to rest.
So what we need is a lift which is cheaper than the sink of the weights.
In Formula F1XL1 ne F2XL2
F1 = force 1 on one side of the wheel
L1= length of the lever on one side of the wheel
F2 = force 2 on the other side of the wheel
L2 = length of the lever on the other side lof the wheel
we have some more conditions when we look to this formula:
We set some of the factors to zero=0
F1=0
0XL1 NE F2XL2, then we have an eccentric weight distribution and wheel will turn downwards on the F2XL2 side
F2=0
F1XL1 NE 0XL2, then we have an eccentric weight distribution and wheel will turn downwards on the F1XL1 side
L1=0
F1X0 NE F2XL2, then we have an eccentric weight distribution and wheel will turn downwards on the F2XL2 side
L2=0
F1XL1 NE F2X0, then we have an eccentric weight distribution and wheel will turn downwards on the F1XL1 side
When we try to lift the same weight as we drop the weight then we have the condition F1=F2
To get a turn of the wheel we have only the the chance to manipulate the L1 or L2.
This leads to the condition L1 NE L2 and the wheel will turn.
The only task is now how we manipulate the the Ls.
This is leading to the duality principle.
We manipulate L1 and L2 at the same time.
We manipulate L1 and L2 in that way that they never be equal.
my first attempts were also the way to an eccentical weight distribution inside of the wheel.
This always ends up in a sinking/dropping total potential energy and therefore the wheel is comming to rest.
So what we need is a lift which is cheaper than the sink of the weights.
In Formula F1XL1 ne F2XL2
F1 = force 1 on one side of the wheel
L1= length of the lever on one side of the wheel
F2 = force 2 on the other side of the wheel
L2 = length of the lever on the other side lof the wheel
we have some more conditions when we look to this formula:
We set some of the factors to zero=0
F1=0
0XL1 NE F2XL2, then we have an eccentric weight distribution and wheel will turn downwards on the F2XL2 side
F2=0
F1XL1 NE 0XL2, then we have an eccentric weight distribution and wheel will turn downwards on the F1XL1 side
L1=0
F1X0 NE F2XL2, then we have an eccentric weight distribution and wheel will turn downwards on the F2XL2 side
L2=0
F1XL1 NE F2X0, then we have an eccentric weight distribution and wheel will turn downwards on the F1XL1 side
When we try to lift the same weight as we drop the weight then we have the condition F1=F2
To get a turn of the wheel we have only the the chance to manipulate the L1 or L2.
This leads to the condition L1 NE L2 and the wheel will turn.
The only task is now how we manipulate the the Ls.
This is leading to the duality principle.
We manipulate L1 and L2 at the same time.
We manipulate L1 and L2 in that way that they never be equal.
Best regards
Georg
Georg
Re: PROCESS RESTART
Utilisation de pendules pour le levage de charge, Brevet déposé au US.
Use of pendulums for load lifting, Patent filed in the US.
Use of pendulums for load lifting, Patent filed in the US.
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La propriété, c'est le vol!
P.J. PROUDHON
P.J. PROUDHON
Re: PROCESS RESTART
Le pendule appliqué aux treuils.
Dans ce treuil, le tambour sur lequel s'enroule la corde, est monté librement sur l'arbre, qui repose sur une charpente appropriée; on peut les rendre solidaires l'un de l'autre au moyen d'un arrêt qui se manœuvre à volonté; en outre, un levier qui agit sur un frein sert à modérer le mouvement du tambour quand il est abandonné à lui même.
Un volant placé sur l'extrémité de l'arbre (il est coupé dans la figure pour la compréhension du dessin) sert à régulariser ses mouvements. Rien de nouveau jusque -là. Mais la manière dont la force est appliquée pour hisser les fardeaux est une heureuse combinaison des leviers à cliquets avec les mouvements d'un double pendule.
Une roue à rochets sur ses deux faces, est fixée sur l'arbre; à coté d'elle est suspendu, sur l'arbre aussi, un lourd pendule qui oscille librement; il porte un cliquet muni d'un ressort qui le fait engrener avec les dents de la roue. Si on le balance, il ne produit aucun effet dans un sens, son cliquet courant sur les dents, mais dans son oscillation de retour il engrène et entraîne l'arbre.
Un autre pendule, absolument semblable, est disposé sur l'autre face de la roue à rochets et doit agir à son tour quand le premier revient librement à son point de départ, de façon à ce que l'action soit à peu près continue. Pour obtenir la régularité de cette action alternative, les mouvements des pendules sont rendus solidaire de la façon suivante: chacun d'eux porte, à sa partie supérieure et sur les faces qui se regardent, un segment denté; ces deux segments agissent sur un même pignon verticale, roulant sur un axe fixé à une pièce du bâti du treuil. Quand un pendule oscille vers la droite il entraîne le pignon, et celui-ci oblige l'autre pendule à osciller vers la gauche.
En raison des masses très lourdes suspendues aux extrémités inférieures de ces balanciers, un homme entretient facilement leur mouvement, qui se transmet à l'arbre par la roue à rochets. Cette disposition est l'objet d'un brevet obtenu par M. J. Sattes (P. O. box 730, Butte City, Montana Etats-Unis).
The pendulum applied to winches.
In this winch, the drum on which the rope is wound is mounted freely on the shaft, which rests on a suitable framework; they can be made to be mutually attached by means of a stop that can be maneuvered at will; In addition, a lever acting on a brake serves to moderate the movement of the drum when it is abandoned to itself.
A steering wheel placed on the end of the shaft (it is cut in the figure for the understanding of the drawing) serves to regularize its movements. Nothing new so far. But the way in which force is applied to hoist the weights is a happy combination of ratchet levers with the movements of a double pendulum.
A ratchet wheel on its two sides is fixed to the shaft; next to it there is also a heavy pendulum which oscillates freely on the shaft and carries a ratchet with a spring that makes it engage with the teeth of the wheel. If it is swung, it does not produce any effect in one direction, its ratchet running on the teeth, but in its return oscillation it engages and drives the shaft.
Another pendulum, absolutely similar, is placed on the other side of the ratchet wheel and must act in turn when the first one freely returns to its starting point, so that the action is approximately continuous. In order to obtain the regularity of this alternative action, the movements of the pendulums are made integral in the following way: each of them carries, at its upper part and on the faces that look at each other, a toothed segment; these two segments act on the same vertical sprocket, rolling on an axis attached to a part of the winch frame. When one pendulum oscillates to the right it drives the pinion, and this one forces the other pendulum to oscillate to the left.
Due to the very heavy masses suspended at the lower ends of these rockers, a man easily maintains their movement, which is transmitted to the shaft by the ratchet wheel. This provision is the subject of a patent obtained by M. J. Sattes (P. O. box 730, Butte City, Montana USA).
Dans ce treuil, le tambour sur lequel s'enroule la corde, est monté librement sur l'arbre, qui repose sur une charpente appropriée; on peut les rendre solidaires l'un de l'autre au moyen d'un arrêt qui se manœuvre à volonté; en outre, un levier qui agit sur un frein sert à modérer le mouvement du tambour quand il est abandonné à lui même.
Un volant placé sur l'extrémité de l'arbre (il est coupé dans la figure pour la compréhension du dessin) sert à régulariser ses mouvements. Rien de nouveau jusque -là. Mais la manière dont la force est appliquée pour hisser les fardeaux est une heureuse combinaison des leviers à cliquets avec les mouvements d'un double pendule.
Une roue à rochets sur ses deux faces, est fixée sur l'arbre; à coté d'elle est suspendu, sur l'arbre aussi, un lourd pendule qui oscille librement; il porte un cliquet muni d'un ressort qui le fait engrener avec les dents de la roue. Si on le balance, il ne produit aucun effet dans un sens, son cliquet courant sur les dents, mais dans son oscillation de retour il engrène et entraîne l'arbre.
Un autre pendule, absolument semblable, est disposé sur l'autre face de la roue à rochets et doit agir à son tour quand le premier revient librement à son point de départ, de façon à ce que l'action soit à peu près continue. Pour obtenir la régularité de cette action alternative, les mouvements des pendules sont rendus solidaire de la façon suivante: chacun d'eux porte, à sa partie supérieure et sur les faces qui se regardent, un segment denté; ces deux segments agissent sur un même pignon verticale, roulant sur un axe fixé à une pièce du bâti du treuil. Quand un pendule oscille vers la droite il entraîne le pignon, et celui-ci oblige l'autre pendule à osciller vers la gauche.
En raison des masses très lourdes suspendues aux extrémités inférieures de ces balanciers, un homme entretient facilement leur mouvement, qui se transmet à l'arbre par la roue à rochets. Cette disposition est l'objet d'un brevet obtenu par M. J. Sattes (P. O. box 730, Butte City, Montana Etats-Unis).
The pendulum applied to winches.
In this winch, the drum on which the rope is wound is mounted freely on the shaft, which rests on a suitable framework; they can be made to be mutually attached by means of a stop that can be maneuvered at will; In addition, a lever acting on a brake serves to moderate the movement of the drum when it is abandoned to itself.
A steering wheel placed on the end of the shaft (it is cut in the figure for the understanding of the drawing) serves to regularize its movements. Nothing new so far. But the way in which force is applied to hoist the weights is a happy combination of ratchet levers with the movements of a double pendulum.
A ratchet wheel on its two sides is fixed to the shaft; next to it there is also a heavy pendulum which oscillates freely on the shaft and carries a ratchet with a spring that makes it engage with the teeth of the wheel. If it is swung, it does not produce any effect in one direction, its ratchet running on the teeth, but in its return oscillation it engages and drives the shaft.
Another pendulum, absolutely similar, is placed on the other side of the ratchet wheel and must act in turn when the first one freely returns to its starting point, so that the action is approximately continuous. In order to obtain the regularity of this alternative action, the movements of the pendulums are made integral in the following way: each of them carries, at its upper part and on the faces that look at each other, a toothed segment; these two segments act on the same vertical sprocket, rolling on an axis attached to a part of the winch frame. When one pendulum oscillates to the right it drives the pinion, and this one forces the other pendulum to oscillate to the left.
Due to the very heavy masses suspended at the lower ends of these rockers, a man easily maintains their movement, which is transmitted to the shaft by the ratchet wheel. This provision is the subject of a patent obtained by M. J. Sattes (P. O. box 730, Butte City, Montana USA).
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Last edited by SHADOW on Sun Mar 09, 2025 1:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.
La propriété, c'est le vol!
P.J. PROUDHON
P.J. PROUDHON
Re: PROCESS RESTART
La propriété, c'est le vol!
P.J. PROUDHON
P.J. PROUDHON
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justsomeone
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Re: PROCESS RESTART
Awesome, thank you Shadow. I saved the link to my favorites.
. I can assure the reader that there is something special behind the stork's bills.
Re: PROCESS RESTART
La propriété, c'est le vol!
P.J. PROUDHON
P.J. PROUDHON
Re: PROCESS RESTART
Histoire de se distraire un peut!
Just to distract a little!
Just to distract a little!
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La propriété, c'est le vol!
P.J. PROUDHON
P.J. PROUDHON