Posted by John Collins (194.164.232.108) on September 25, 2003 at 23:27:06:
In Reply to: Re: Question for Ovvyus posted by ovyyus on September 25, 2003 at 19:36:59:
Yes there is a reference to the pendula in "Das Triumphirende" in which he says, in a reference page adjacent to the woodcuts, the pendula are for "keeping the wheel running true" and again a few lines down "for making the wheel run slowly". I still believe that these pendula were unecessary to the operation of the wheel and that they were included either as a way of enhancing what was after all a pretty dull drawing or else it was red-herring designed to fool us later - or there was indeed a clue to something there.
BTW the full English/German versions Das Triumphirende and Apologia are almost ready and will be available very soon now.
John Collins
: Hi grim,
: Something that just came to mind: I seem to remember that Bessler mentioned (somewhere) that the pendulums could be dispensed with if desired - I think this might have been his response to queries about the drawings which show pendulums. I can't remember where I read this, so I'm unsure about the origin of this info.
: John, do you recall Bessler mentioning about the optional use of the pendulums?
: Regards, ovyyus
:
: : Hi grim,
: : I don't believe Bessler would knowingly describe any specific part of his secret that might ultimately undermine his prime objective - the sale of his wheel.
: : MT is a good example of just how far Bessler was NOT prepared to go in describing the working principle of his wheel - and MT was never published, unlike Das Triumphans. I find it hard to believe that Bessler would break with his own well established tradition of secrecy and divulge anything other than vaguaries that might only make sense in retrospect after his secret was revealed.
: : From this perspective the paragraph you refer to describes the interaction between the wheel and the applied (and modifiable) external pendula quite well. If the pendulums were forced to swing, the wheel would be rotated by them as expected - or visa versa. I think this is simply what Bessler is describing.
: : The unanswered question is why the pendulums were referred to in the first place - they were apparently never used. I am of the opinion that Bessler wanted people to know that he was offering a machine that could be controlled if desired, by demonstrating his knowledge of application of a pendulating govenor - an optional extra, as it were.
: : Also, and it's been mentioned before, the exact phrasing and subtleties of Bessler's text descriptions can be lost or confused in the translation process, even while maintaining the general gist. Proof of this is the various differences that can arise between two or more translations of the same source text. Sometimes all it takes is a couple of words interpreted in an unintended order and the meaning takes a left turn, so to speak.
: : After having said this, I believe we should examine all possible clues from as many different perspectives as possible. Who is to say that you will not see something that others have missed?
: : Regards, ovyyus
: :
: : : Hi Ovvyus
: : : In a posted answer to Fletcher's pendulum question, you said that the pendulum pictures have "led some researchers to suppose that perhaps there is more to them and that Bessler might have been hinting at something a little more profound. Personally I (you) didn't think so."
: : : What information did you get that made you arrive at that opinion, in lieu of the fact that in paragraph three of "New Text Translation" Bessler's straightforward statement says that "pendula" are the motive force? Is there an instance somewhere where he states something else?
: : : Best regards
: : :
: : : grim