Bessler's wheel and God (mostly God)

[Ed]

Continued from Bessler's Wheel and God

Ed - interesting viewpoint. You seem to be well versed in scripture. I'm guessing you were raised as a Christian, and decided it didn't suit you, but need to be able to justify your choices to yourself.

Just what is it that you think I am now then? I certainly don't think or feel I need to justify myself to anyone else, but like any sane, rational person I do reevaluate my decisions periodically. Don't you?

But Christians do believe that the bible is the Word of God, directly written by the Holy Spirit. Because the text itself says as much. There is even a curse on those who would dare change the text. But the text also says that the bible can only be interpreted by the Holy Spirit. I've seen many people attempt to interpret the bible and get egg all over their face.

You are a Christian. You believe in the literal Bible. Therefore all Christians must believe in the literal Bible? I know not all Christians believe in the Bible as literally written, so that statement is erroneous, but I can respect that you do and I would never tell you that you are wrong.

This is the only way the text of the bible can be literally true. And I would say that any scholar who suggests that the bible need not be literally true is walking on very thin ice. Let God be true and every man a liar, as it says.

I don't know why you seem to feel the need to force your beliefs around the Bible being literally true? But you do and that's fine. It just seems like you are the one trying to justify your decisions by continually saying it and also harping on Atheists. You still didn't answer my question. In your mind, do they have a God given right to exercise their measure of free will to not believe and can you respect that?

Again it's your choice, but if you believe in a God this big and mind boggling, why bring God down by forcing on a gender? IMHO you are making an interpretation of the Bible yourself. God created you in "His" image. To many God also supposedly is a trinity. Do you really know what all that means? I know many believe God is a white male biped because "the Bible 'says'" and because they happen to be.

Do our beliefs and choices here matter? Well obviously that depends on whether life is really All or Nothing ...

Either way you look at it - the Universe is pretty weird. I don't have the faith to believe it's all ultimately Nothing. Looks like Something to me ...

Atheists likely do believe that their choices here matter. They would not want to do things that make them miserable or leads to their death, and implying that Atheists also have faith in order for them not to believe sounds like justifying to me.

You seem to have the answers to life, the universe and everything, but I doubt you will find 42 in the Bible parity.

[AB Hammer]

The good Lord giveth and Uncle Sam/ big oil tries to take it away.

[Richard]

Orffyreus latin attribute to Orffyre

I believe Bessler was driven by his percieved ( if not ordained ) destiny to build his wheel.

Johann Ernst Elias Bessler...So then What's in a name and why settle on an Atbash translation to Bessler....In Hebrew Orffyre is Owphir and when Owphir drops one . (dot) It is Owphan and Owphan is Hebrew for Rotate wheel

Johann is a name indicating...of Jehova ...by Jehova..from..for..as to..you get the picture..

Ernst not to be found in Hebrew is suffixed err.in Hebrew and means to decieve and lead astray

Elias in Hebrew Elial and Aliah means to be (Elial) self existant and eternal and (Aliah) fall, falling; to stop or to catch and to ascend upwards

These translations come from an concordance of the Bible..and are easily ascertainable..so then in Hebrew/Chaldean Johann Ernst Elias Bessler can be called " Of Jehova (to) decieve and lead astray (with) eternal falling, catching; acsending upwards Rotate (ing) wheel (Falling and catching was my wheel design...oh well:))

The reason I've posted this here is because to many of us..we find that Bessler claims ( or seems to infer) that he has a unique relation to God who has given him the wheel..I am of the belief that Bessler did have such a relation and that this relation is mentioned in the Bible 2nd Thess. chpt. 2 vs. 3 and 4. ( think hard as to interpretation)

I will add here the thought that this could be interpreted three ways..

1) No connection...Bessler does however point out this verse himself and in one conversation he stated that either him or the wheel was mentioned by Christ himself in the scripture...( I've lost reference to this so if you know what I am refering to please post this)

2) Bessler was delusional...he was said to be.." mad but not so much a fraud"

3) Bessler was fulfilling the only prophecy that needs to be filled before the second coming of Christ. ( or is part of that prophecy)

It is not my intention to write a thesis or novel here but rather I feel to enrichen our search for the wheel we need to keep in mind Besslers words... (paraphrase) ..I think even those who are not ignorant and by pure reason alone, seek to unlock the mystery of my wheel ...rather the wheel given to me by God shall miss out on their oppotunity to fame.."

Five and fifty-five do seem to be relevent to Bessler so it should be interesting when we have it, to see if these numbers are relevent to its design...I think not for the following reason

Solace, vindication. justification and Help are even today found in the Psalms of scripture...Psalms five is a prayer for help against them that lie and make accusations against you...Psalm 55 is a prayer to help against the wrong a friend or companion has committed against you.

IMHO Bessler ascended Jacobs ladder at least as many times as his wheel revolved....there is so much more to be said but I am tired.

I will continue this thread so long as any may wish...or if there is no objection from administration perhaps archive my "Impressions" of the man Bessler here :)

[Jim Williams]

The arguement I like is if God created everything (and everyone) why does he choose one person over another for anything? Why was Bessler chosen indeed? He wasn't. Bessler chose himself. What Bessler didn't choose was only himself over everyone else. Choosing only Bessler has been left only to God. Oh, and judging so far by everyone's else's success including my own, only to us. Or better yet, only to me.

[Richard]

Be patient. Priori.....there is an order to be revealed.

[Jim Williams]

If I had to choose between God giving Einstein E=MC^2 and Einstein choosing it himself, I'd go with Einstein chose himself to find E=MC^2 and find it he did. The question remains to me if Bessler chose to find his wheel and did, why is it among the chosen, i.e. those choosing to find any PMM, only Bessler has succeeded? I'm skipping one or two steps here, but either God chose Bessler or there is no God. The solution is others will find a PMM, undoubtably having to do with dark energy, remains open.

[DrWhat]

Everything can and will eventually be discovered. As long as we and that which we are examining exist. Discovery is like evolution. The world evolves and at a certain point in time knowledge and technology lead to newer discoveries. Sometimes sequentially, progressively, sometimes by chance and luck.

E=mc^2 would have eventually been discovered regardless of Einstein, at which point in time who knows.

One day E=mc^2 will no longer be relevant. A new theory and equation will emerge as knowledge increases.

What Bessler hopefully did for us is to alter the point in time at which a gravity (or whatever) wheel would be created. And if he had not done this we would not be pursuing this headache now.

If JC has made the discovery then this has yielded the answer possibly a century or so earlier than it may have been ultimately discovered.

Discovery is not a question of IF, but WHEN.

[rlortie]

Interpretation, its all about interpretation!

Your gonna kill me for this!

PAY SPECIAL ATTENTION TO THE WORDING AND SPELLING. IF YOU ARE EVEN REMOTELY FAMILIAR WITH HOLY SCRIPTURE, YOU'LL FIND THIS HILARIOUS! IT COMES FROM A ROMAN CATHOLIC ELEMENTARY SCHOOL TEST. KIDS WERE ASKED QUESTIONS ABOUT THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENTS. THE FOLLOWING STATEMENTS ABOUT THE BIBLE WERE WRITTEN BY CHILDREN. THEY HAVE NOT BEEN RE-TOUCHED OR CORRECTED. INCORRECT SPELLING HAS BEEN LEFT IN.


1. IN THE FIRST BOOK OF THE BIBLE, GUINESSIS. GOD GOT TIRED OF CREATINGTHE WORLD SO HE TOOK THE SABBATH OFF.

2. ADAM AND EVE WERE CREATED FROM AN APPLE TREE. NOAH'S WIFE WAS JOAN
OF ARK. NOAH BUILT AND ARK AND THE ANIMALS CAME ON IN PEARS.

3. LOTS WIFE WAS A PILLAR OF SALT DURING THE DAY, BUT A BALL OF FIRE
DURING THE NIGHT.


4. THE JEWS WERE A PROUD PEOPLE AND THROUGHOUT HISTORY THEY HAD TROUBLE WITH UNSYMPATHETIC GENITALS.

5. SAMPSON WAS A STRONGMAN WHO LET HIM SELF BE LED ASTRAY BY A JEZEBEL LIKE DELILAH.

6. SAMSON
SLAYED THE PHILISTINES WITH THE AXE OF THE APOSTLES.

7. MOSES LED THE JEWS TO THE RED SEA WHERE THEY MADE UNLEAVENED BREAD WHICH IS BREAD WITHOUT ANY INGREDIENTS .

8, THE EGYPTIANS WERE ALL DROWNED IN THE DESSERT. AFTER WARDS, MOSES
WENT UP TO MOUNT CYANIDE TO GET THE TEN COMMANDMENTS.

9. THE FIRST COMMANDMENTS WAS WHEN EVE TOLD ADAM TO EAT THE APPLE.

10. THE SEVENTH COMMANDMENT IS THOU SHALT NOT ADMIT ADULTERY.

11. MOSES DIED BEFORE HE EVER REACHED CANADA . THEN JOSHUA LED THE HEBREWS IN THE BATTLE OF GERITOL ..

12. THE GREATEST MIRICLE IN THE BIBLE IS WHEN JOSHUA TOLD HIS SON TO
STAND STILL AND HE OBEYED HIM.

13. DAVID WAS A HEBREW KING WHO WAS SKILLED AT PLAYING THE LIAR. HE
FOUGHT THE FINKELSTEINS, A RACE OF PEOPLE WHO LIVED IN BIBLICAL TIMES.

14. SOLOMON, ONE OF DAVIDS SONS, HAD 300 WIVES AND 700 PORCUPINES.

15. WHEN MARY HEARD SHE WAS THE MOTHER OF JESUS, SHE SANG THE MAGNA CARTA.

16. WHEN THE THREE WISE GUYS FROM THE EAST SIDE ARRIVED THEY FOUND
JESUS IN THE MANAGER.

17. JESUS WAS BORN BECAUSE MARY HAD AN IMMACULATE CONTRAPTION.

18. ST. JOHN THE BLACKSMITH DUMPED WATER ON HIS HEAD.

19. JESUS ENUNCIATED THE GOLDEN RULE, WHICH SAYS TO DO UNTO OTHERS BEFORE THEY DO ONE TO YOU. HE ALSO EXPLAINED A MAN DOTH NOT LIVE BY SWEAT ALONE..

20. IT WAS A MIRICLE WHEN JESUS ROSE FROM THE DEAD AND MANAGED TO GET
THE TOMBSTONE OFF THE ENTRANCE.

21. THE PEOPLE WHO FOLLOWED THE LORD WERE CALLED THE 12 DECIBELS.

22. THE EPISTELS WERE THE WIVES OF THE APOSTLES.

23. ONE OF THE OPPOSSUMS WAS ST. MATTHEW WHO WAS ALSO A TAXIMAN.


24. ST. PAUL CAVORTED TO CHRISTIANITY, HE PREACHED HOLY ACRIMONY WHICH IS ANOTHER NAME FOR MARRAIGE.

25. CHRISTIANS HAVE ONLY ONE SPOUSE . THIS IS CALLED MONOTONY.

[triplock]

25. CHRISTIANS HAVE ONLY ONE SPOUSE . THIS IS CALLED MONOTONY.

Aint that the truth ;-))


ANON....

[Jim Williams]

DrWhat

I agree with if Einstein hadn't discovered that relationship between energy and mass then someone else, roughly of the same period in history, would have found it. But I also agree a solution, probably using gravity as an energy source, is going to be found.

However, I've retreated to the belief that dark energy needs to become substantially more uncovered before any solution is discovered, i.e. dark energy will be discovered before any Bessler related solution is uncovered.

Since my computer was stolen I may wait until dark energy is discovered before I post again, although I still remain impressed with that shot from space of that erupting volcano you posted, so I never know what I'm going to do.

Ralph

OMG

[Richard]

I would agree that Einstein chose E=MC2 and that Bessler chose G+OD2

Ralph thanks for that post:::)))children say the darndest things.

Does God have a sense of humor..who knows/ Id be willing to bet he does..For instance if the POPE himself cracked me over the knuckles with a ruler for writing with myleft hand..I Believe god would laugh when I cracked the Pope over the ass with a yard stick....Maybe this is what Bessler meant when he said ...nor am I a Papist..

Which brother or sister should assume to tell there sibling what type of relationship they should have with their parent....my relation with my folks is just that.... mine} my brothers (three) and sisters (two) all have there own relationship with our parents and were all good with that...I don't call a Mediator to talk with my mom or dad and I Goddamn sure wont call a priest to talk to God for me

Everything is not perfect all the time; including our relationships...I have in a fit of Rage called down Jesus himself so that I might bend him over in the middle of main street..pull up his gown...and enter him through the south-gate..

The point is Hot or cold God can work with...lukewarm just doesn't work

Solomon joined "the school of the prophets" he didn't pray for a gift of prophecy..its a learning process...

Wouldn't it be a hoot if God said ...a wheelso simple a caveman can do it however...you empirical geniuses of the 21st. century cant even unbalance the damn thing..

what is this post again...oh yhea..Bessler's wheel and God ( Mostly God)

I believe an Immaculate deception occured not the other way around
I believe when the Jew ( who chose God) Jesus, said " call no man here your father..." (spiritually he meant that...so the first thing the Universal church does is proclaim a Papa..a father...POPE..whatever...

So much for the shepherds of the Flock...Maybe God should raise up a "Worthless Shepherd" woe to the worthless shepherd...If God breaks "Favor" he will break "Union"

richard

[Jim Williams]

If the Devil had discovered Bessler's Wheel before Bessler discovered it, would he have told Bessler? Yes. Bessler didn't question his discovery, but he had a hell of a time uncovering why no one else seemed to have anything more than a clue to it.

[Richard]

Jim... I think any credible and written information that we currently have at our disposal would quite frankly.....not allow me to entertain the idea of The Devil and Bessler's discovery haveing an assossiative value to it..?

When Bessler mentioned....little did I know that there were obstacles in the way... and also his constant eludeing to ... mortal enemies...
do however allow you to speculate thus-wise..

I read that differently though...for a few reasons...

a) Bessler knows satan ( the accuser or one who accuses) is simply an agent of god who will and can do no harm unless God allows him to prove a man or to test him.

b) Man has a propensity towards evil...Satan is an Agent of God and not evil

How can we know this...if not empirically then at least Absolutely

Look at Job...Three Patron friends of Job have no credibility....also there names and where they are from is given.....Young Elihu is niether Ptriarchial or a friend yet he is recognized to the fullness of a generation...translate Elihu generationally as stated in Job and you get this...

God of him// Blessed // dispised or scorned /// raised high or lifted up..

If your statements are sincere and are meant to help understand Bessler's relations in this world and his relation to god...thats terriffic.....If these are arguments for argument sake...Then I do not wish to entertain them....

To Bessler...The wheel was probably nothing more than a means to an end....

richard

[DrWhat]

The fact that Bessler failed to reveal his wheel to the world for the betterment of all implies his soul was veering to the wrong side. If you believe all that.

[AB Hammer]

Hay Damian

Awhile back. Didn't you and I talk about Bessler being reincarnated to do it again when the time was wright? Also we talked about him being here at Besslerwheel already? ;-))