Posted by Darren (65.35.126.126) on June 03, 2003 at 22:06:27:
In Reply to: Re: Anyone see this? posted by Lurker on June 03, 2003 at 16:23:23:
: I don't know him, and I have never seen his machine except in the photos. Based upon what I have seen in those photos, though, his machine DOES produce an unballanced COG, which should produce motion without an outside energy input.
Yes, the weights in the photos appear to be off center, but we're all painfully familiar with the fact that physics simply don't work the way they should based on looks :-)
: We all lie about some things Darren, including YOU.
Ouch. I pride myself on my honesty. Please point out where I have lied. I may have made claims that are as yet unproven, but I have not lied. I have said things like "Once the prototype is done it should turn at 10 RPM" but that's not a lie, it's what I believe will happen when I give it a push. As I've said before, I could easily be mistaken, but a lie insinuates fraud and intentionally misleading others.
: I will point out that YOUR claims are even MORE suspicious at this point than are those of Techstuff.
Again, your opinion and I respect that... but his claims are no more real just because he has some pictures of a wheel standing still.
: Nevertheless, I am willing to give both of you the benefit of the doubt... for now.
That's cool, but just remember that I'm not out to convince you of anything :-)
: : I have. It doesn't work.
: So you say. You may be right, but you may be lying, or you may not have made it corectly
I'll give you that.
: or even understood the principle behind it's operation.
But I won't give you that... it's not that difficult of a design. There are only a few variables (spring length, spring rate, weight of spheres, diameter of wheel) and things like centrifugal force are simple to calculate... at a certain RPM the weights will be pinned on the outer rim... period... end of story.. no argument possible. So if he states it spins past that RPM rate he's easily proven a fraud with a $3 calculator.
: There are many possibilities, and I have seen no justification for calling the machine a scam.
Okay. And I have. Now we can move on.
: You have not demonstrated that his claim is false.
You're right there, I haven't demonstrated it for everyone else, only for myself. But I would have assumed that a person of average intelligence or even moderate construction ability would attempt to duplicate it before blindly accepting it. Not only that but you believe a man who claims to have built a PM wheel... but you don't believe another man who says the math proves it unworkable... how do you decide to believe one over the other? Simply because one has snapshots and the other one says go get your calculator and see for yourself?
: Furthermore, the fact that the laws of physics are not complete has EVERYTHING to do with His claims, as well as your own. You must surely realize, Darren, that if our understanding of physics WERE complete, then perpetual motion or free energy of any sort is impossible. That would mean that anyone claiming otherwise, including you and Bessler, MUST be either deluded or a fraud.
Yes, I do know that our current set of laws and theories etc are not 100% complete. But I don't see that applying to his springy wheel. There's nothing mystical going on in there.
: : : Having said all that, it is certainly possible that the machine does not work as calimed.
: : It's alot more than "possible"
: Again, that claim is unsubstantiated, just like all your other claims. I'm not saying it isn't true, just that you have not made the case.
That's fair, I'll go with that. I guess I should have started the whole thread off with *in my opinion* it won't work... so that nobody misunderstood and thought I was trying to *prove* him a fraud.
Darren