Posted by Darren (208.143.232.66) on June 09, 2003 at 15:18:35:
In Reply to: Re: Part III (INVITATION) posted by Lurker on June 09, 2003 at 12:34:17:
: Correct me if I am wrong, but I had the impression that you would post the information about your overunity principle once you have a working machine. Assuming you are able to produce one.
Yes.
: Once you do that, everyone who believes that your principe may be valid will immediately seek to build a machine of their own.
Probably.
: Many will not believe you, of course, even if you provide pictures, vidio, etc, of your working machine.
Agreed, not even with vidio.
: Since your primary motive is to recieve credit for the idea...
Actually, I don't want to be well known and famous or anything that droll... I only want to recieve credit so that they know who to make the checks out to :-)
: I see no reason to confine your idea to a small group other than a possible desire to be the first to build a working machine.
Really not trying to be rude but... it doesn't really matter whether you "see any other reason." It's evident that there's lots of things you "don't see."
: To recieve credit for the idea itself requires witnesses and a public record that you were the one who had the idea first. A working machine is not necessary for this.
Witnesses, yes, public record, no, working machine required, maybe... since it's a well known "impossibility."
: So, one reason for posting your ideas in a public forum, such as this one, is to establish your priority as the originator of the idea. Then, if anyone else happened to have the same idea before you, they will have no public record to prove it.
I know I've said this before but, posting here does NOT prove anything. It does not prove you own it, discovered it, nothing. Not something I'm going to argue about because I've done the homework on intellectual property, copyright, and patent law. It might be used to corroberate other proof, but it's *not* good enough to stand up in court on it's own. Period.
: If they build a machine which operates on the basis of your idea, everyone will assume that they must have gotten the idea from you, even if they did not.
In law and litigation nobody assumes nothin.
: The purpose for building a working machine is simply to prove that your idea is valid.
That is true, but things are a little more complicated when there are pre-existing laws and patent policy pertaining to your invention because it's supposedly a physical impossibility.
: Few people will believe it without the machine.
True. A few will, most won't, some won't even after being presented with the machine itself.
: Many will no doubt critisize it even without understanding it.
Expected.
: That is not relevant, though. By posting the idea, you have established that it is YOUR idea.
Nope. There are lots of places on the web where you can read all about this... http://www.inventionconvention.com/ncio/inventing101/001.html
is just one of them and they all pretty much say the same thing. For more specifics and detail search within major university and patent attorney websites.
: If someone then claims that it is really their's, everyone who reads this forum will know otherwise. Your only risk is making yourself look like a fool if your idea proves not to be valid. The way I see it, that is a very small risk considering the stakes involved.
The way *I* see it... you sound alot like you're trying to get me to just publish it openly. You've been doing that ever since you started posting on this list. It's gotten quite obvious.
: When you DO build a working machine based on your idea, or when someone ELSE builds a machine, your idea will be proved valid.
True.
: I think it is important to emphasize that once you have published your idea in a public forum, it does not matter who builds the machine which proves it's validity. You still remain the originator of the idea, and everyone knows it.
Incorrect.
: Thus, I think you are taking too much of the burden upon yourself by insisting that you personally be the o
experience... and that's where I need the most help, taking it from paper to prototype. I have the money to pay for that stuff, I just don't have the knowledge or contacts.
: : To me that's obvious... and yet another reason not to publish openly. It would get snapped up in a heartbeat... not only by competing businesses and private individuals, but also by scam artists and frauds who wish to enhance their scams with something that looks real... I mean... if my design *does* have a flaw in it, the flaw is so hard to find that even hard core skeptics would be convinced on paper. Yikes, how dangerous would that be to the unsuspecting investor...
: Well, Darren, you will eventually have to publish your idea openly if you wish to recieve credit for it. Therefore, none of these arguments are valid.
Whatever. Not going to argue with you about it anymore.
: Keep in mind that the only way an idea can be "stolen" is if you keep it secret.
Hmmm... so nobody can steal my car because it's parked in plain view? I'm a developer so... nobody can steal my software if I stick big red labels with my name on the CDs? You have quite a few of your facts wrong. Sure, I can litigate and/or procesute and maybe get my stuff back later... but by then it might be too late. No, people can steal anything... doesn't matter if it's secret or not.
: If you keep it secret, then someone can steal it by publishing it and claiming it is their idea. Because you kept the idea secret, you will not be able to prove anything.
Untrue... if you followed the procedures in that hyperlink above you can prove it's yours.
: On the other hand, if you publish the idea, you establish proof that the idea is yours. No buisness will be able to patent the idea because you have established priority.
Your *entire* post was nothing but a blatent attempt to convince me to publish openly. I'm not sure why you're doing that but I think it bothers me.... and I do know one other thing... you have *lots* of reading to do before you give anyone else advice about publishing their inventions and ideas... you're going to wind up costing someone a fortune if they decide follow your uneducated advice.
Darren